Moderators: JeffN, carolve, Heather McDougall
JeffN wrote:Good evidence, means peer reviewed published studies in mainstream scientific journals.
geoffreylevens wrote: The original works great though. But you have to take fairly large doses every 2 hours to get it to work and if you wait long enough to be coughing at all, it will do virtually nothing.
geoffreylevens wrote:Quick riddle---if something is proven effective in a double blind, placebo controlled study w/ very large subject group and rigorous methodology, was that something effective before the study was done?
TerriT wrote:geoffreylevens wrote:Quick riddle---if something is proven effective in a double blind, placebo controlled study w/ very large subject group and rigorous methodology, was that something effective before the study was done?
If a patient believes something is effective, they're often more likely to benefit from taking it, even if it's a placebo -- and strangely enough, even if they know it's a placebo. A study done in 1965 demonstrated this.
http://www.leecrandallparkmd.net/researchpages/placebo1.html
geoffreylevens wrote:The Chinese until recently did not do double blind studies, did not even use a control group as they believed it was unethical to withhold a treatment you feel likely to work from those who need it. I very much appreciate the scientific method. But I am not willing to wait and have upper respiratory infections until someone decides to pony up the millions of $ necessary and take several years to do a study. I used to get one or two per year, often turning into bronchitis then a sinus infection lasting months When I found out about Yin Chiao in acupuncture school I tried it next time I started to get a sore throat. Hmmm it vanished! Likely a coincidence. Then it happened the next time and the next. And the next. 800 years of successful clinical use is not "belief". The Chinese system of herbal medicine was developed over probably a couple thousand years of home cooking trial and error as they developed and refined a non-technological system to explain what they were finding out and sure enough, that system turned out to have strong predictive value.
In the "modern" world the scientific method is worshipped and misused. You have only to look at the research on diet where 30% fat is "low fat" and a couple pounds weight loss over a year is called "success" to see it. The whole process is corrupted by politics and big money so that true science is all but buried. That does not invalidate science! Likewise, NewAge airheads, charlatans etc often believe that if I think it so then it is true. That has absolutely nothing to do with non-technological sciences developed over many generations of hard work in other cultures. Ours is not the only way that "works" and from all the signs it does not seem to be working all that well. Should we thank the scientific method for global warming, the devastation of the rainforests, the sterilization and strip mining of the oceans, the denuding of topsoil, the soaring cancer rate (plus heart disease, diabetes, etc)?
If someone did a study on Airborne, it would be interesting to know who paid for and designed it. The ingredients are all non-patentable and easy to get. Tthe formula would be a no brainer for any herbalist to imitate but slightly different enough to get around any patent anyway so who would want to spend the money. I'm sure the fine is pocket change compared to the profits already made. Cost of doing business. The cumulative science shows that a great many pharmaceutical drugs either don't work at all or have such common and horrendous side effects that no one who took the time to know about them would want to take them and some are downright criminal in my opinion yet they continue to be used often based on either faulty science or deliberately concealed data. Where is the real scientific method when we need it?
SactoBob wrote:With the millions at stake, don't you think that it would be easy to conduct a double blind legit study to prove the effectiveness of Airborne if it worked? Or that they would pay such a huge fine for deception?
SactoBob wrote:The problem is that many people believe that anecdotal evidence stated by somebody with a firm conviction carries the same weight as a double blind peer reviewed well designed study that proves the opposite. No wonder so many people are confused.
geoffreylevens wrote: There is a formula that Airborne was stolen from that really does work for early stage, upper resp. viruses. Usually.
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