Moderators: JeffN, carolve, Heather McDougall
JeffN wrote:RawDad wrote:Interesting. Dr. McDougall says in this video we are supposed to eat salt & seek salt......@ ~ 1:15 into the video....
We have to keep this in perspective and know the difference between sodium (which the body needs) and table salt, which is sodium chloride (the number on contributor of sodium to the diet). Dr McDougall's recommendations and my recommendations are virtually identical as shown in the quote below from The Starch Solution. The difference is, the approach but the target is the same.
Human beings require sodium not salt. Salt is a compound molecule that contains sodium.
We get all the sodium we need from what occurs naturally in whole plant foods when someone follows the guidelines and recommendations here.RawDad wrote:why is it the foremost taste we seek ?
Is it?
In Health
Jeff
JeffN wrote:Let's put this concern in perspective and I will address the S (sugar) and the S (salt). We can save the O for another day.
First, The evidence for S-S Free is virtually non existent. However, the evidence for low(er) S-S is abundant. Neither Dr McDougall, Dr Esselstyn, Dr Klaper or I recommend S-S Free just low(er) S-S. Dr Goldhamer recommends S-S free but acknowledges the evidence is only for low S-S but sees no reason to recommend S-S or use it. I have a running thread on added sugar and one on added salt. [To be perfectly clear, I would say I do recommend S-S free but allow for both (low S-S & S-S free), within my guidelines.]
For the record, if you are trying to follow a S-S free diet, you may want to read my article on this issue as many are using products that contain added S-S and don't realize it.
https://www.facebook.com/notes/jeff-nov ... 6400521819"Adding a half teaspoons of salt at the table to your starch-based meals over the course of a day adds about 1,100 mg of sodium, for a daily total of about 1,600 mg, 700 mg below the 2010 USDA Dietary Guidelines of less than 2,300 mg daily and 400 mg below the 2,000 mg low-sodium diet fed to hospital patients following a massive heart attack.
With these naturally low levels, I have no concerns about inviting people following my starch-based diet to sprinkle a little salt on their food......."
He goes on to say that he doesn't recommend cooking with salt, but doesn't mind it when adding a little salt to the food. I believe he has table salt available for people to use at his 10 day program.
Dr. McDougall does not claim that his food plan is SOS free. He realizes that some people might need a pinch of salt or sugar to make the food more palatable (at first, at least). True North offers a truly SOS free plan.
In regard to added salt, the quote from TSS (and the comments) are correct but again, need to be put in perspective.
As per the quote, at the McDougall Program, it is announced in the first lecture that the food is (as often as possible) prepared with no added salt. However, there are salt shakers at the table and people are encouraged to use them if desired. It is not a salt-free diet.
So, add 1/2 tsp (which is ~1100 mg) to the food (which is ~500 mg) and you are at 1600.
Here is how the numbers work out..
The average person on the SAD diet adds about 200 mg during cooking and about 240 mg of salt at the table
The McDougall diet without added salt is around 300-500 mg. While consuming your food at the 10-Day Program, add in the 240 added at the table, and even add in the 200 that used to be added in during cooking, and we are at 790 to 990. Not even at the 1/2 tsp yet. So, if you really wanted, you can add in another 240 and you are at 1030-1230, roughly a 1/2 tsp and still below the 2300, the 1600 and the 1500.
Since salt added to the food at the table that sits on top of the food, has a much more flavor impact then salt cooked into food, many find that it is not even necessary to add in all this as a few shakes (or two) of the salt shaker at each meal is more then enough and will end up around 550-1000
However, this does not justify the liberal unbridled use of salt or any processed foods, even WFPB/Vegan processed foods, that have excessive amounts of salt in them.
This is also inline with the other WFPB docs mentioned above as well as the Ornish, Pritikin, CHIP, PCRM programs too.
And, as many have found and reported in these forums, paying attention to the issue of added salt and cutting back (and in some cased, cutting out) has been of great benefit.
For more details on all these points, see my thread on salt.
In Health
Jeff
JeffN wrote:Let me put it in perspective...
The need for sodium is so low and the amount occurs so easily in foods that there is no RDA for sodium. The National Academy of Sciences says humans can survive on as little as 125 mgs/day. However, a whole plant food diet would easily provide 350-500 in what occurs naturally in foods.
The AHA, IOM and others have set what is called an adequate intake (AI) which is the <1200-1500/day. This is based on age and health.
The Upper Limit (UL) is set at 2300.
Some of the national health organizations, like the USDA, just default to the Upper Limit and not the AI as it is more politically correct. However they have been publicly blasted by the AHA and IOM for doing so.
So, that's the recommendations.
In regard to intake...
The average sodium intake is estimated to be about 4000 mgs/day. Of that 4000, 10-12% occurs naturally in food, 5% is added at the table to the surface of the food, 5% is added during cooking, and about 75-80% is hidden in packaged processed foods and restaurant foods with the majority of that coming from packaged/processed foods.
So, if we eliminate the 75-80% of packaged/processed foods and the 5% we add during cooking that is 80-85% of the 4000, which leaves 600- 800 mgs per day which is way below the recommended intakes. And, that includes the 5% added at the table to the surface of the food.
Or if you look at it this way... you will get in about 350-500 mg of sodium from what occurs naturally in whole plant foods. Let say 500 to make math easier. The AI is <1200-1500 so lets use the 1500 to make math easier. And the UL is 2300. Subtract what occurs naturally in food from the AI (1500 minus 500) and from the UL (2300-500) and you get 1000- 1800 mgs.
As a tsp of salt is around 2200 - 2300 mg, that would allow for up to 1/2 to 3/4 tsp per day.
If you choose to do this, it would be best to add it to the surface of the food at the table as you will get the most flavor for the least amount. Right now, they estimate what we add at the table to be about 5% of the 4000 (which is 200). So, add the 200 to the 500 which occurs naturally and you are at 700 and safe.
Make sense?
The really good news is that we down regulate our taste buds to salt, very quickly and low salt to salt-free food begins to taste great.
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/36/6/1134.abstract
"These results demonstrate that the preferred level of salt in food is dependent on the level of salt consumed and that this preferred level can be lowered after a reduction in sodium intake. The implications of these findings for the maintenance of low sodium diets are discussed."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3728360
"Reduction in sodium intake and excretion accompanied a shift in preference toward less salt"
And the best way to get to reduce our intake is to get it out of all the food and if desired, sprinkle it on the food at the table.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3682116
"A substantial reduction in dietary sodium is possible if lowered-sodium foods are consumed in conjunction with ad libitum table salt."
In Health
Jeff
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