Cannot gain muscle/weight, always hungry

Den32 · **Posted:** Fri May 25, 2012 3:30 am

Hi Jeff,

I would like to share some experiences I have with this diet regarding weight/energy issues.
I am quite active male and consuming about 2200 calories a day. I am training calisthenics, cycling to gain muscle and sports performance. My starch staples are mainly quinoa, potatoes and buckwheat with a pound of veg a day. However I prepare my meals only once a day (in the evening) for next days consumption. So I always eat my quinoa/buckwheat cold during the day.
However I get quite hungry 2h after 700 cal quinoa or other cold starch meal. I am training calisthenics and cannot keep up with the exercise. As well as my energy levels are not stable.

Does cold starch has the same calorie bioavailability as freshly prepared starch? I read that cold starch becomes even less digestible. It it true?
I prepare my quinoa/buckwheat to make them even better digestible-soaking(germinating) for 24h then cooking for 20min to porridge consistency.
The calorie calculator shows that I need 1300-1400 calories when doing nothing. So I think it would be enough 800 calories left for physical activity.

I would be thankful for advice,
Den

jamietwo · **Joined:** Sat Dec 27, 2008 3:40 pm **Posts:** 765

You might want to post this in Jeff's forum where he'll be more likely to see it. The short answer is, if you're still hungry, you need to eat more!

LifeForce24 · **Joined:** Fri May 25, 2012 4:15 pm **Posts:** 68

That's not unusual to feel hungry when first getting used to this way of eating. I would definitely say to try eating more. Especially if you are not trying to lose weight. That being the case, I would try eating way more calories. Up your starches a bit more and that should do the trick. Just keep eating until you find how much you need to take in to feel satisfied. You will eventually find your "zone" and from there, you should be able to build muscle and have more stamina.

I was surprised at how nicely my muscles were growing on this diet. I grow the same amt of muscle as when I was consuming 35% protein (mostly animal based).

You may want to eat foods that have higher calories like a little more pasta, rice and fruits like dates and bananas. Those things should help you feel fuller and provide you with more energy.

lfwfv · **Joined:** Sat Aug 22, 2009 12:35 pm **Posts:** 851

Also, Jeff has noted many times how notoriously inaccurate calorie calculators are. He does not recommend trying to estimate caloric needs, or count dietary calories.

He does recommend following your hunger cues and eating until satisfied.

He also recommends adjusting the calorie density of your diet to meet your personal goals (in terms of weight, energy level etc.).

But, please, read his threads about these topics, rather than having me speak for him.

If you want to gain weight, you either need to eat more food in general, or increase the calorie density of the food you eat. Or both.

If you are hungry, you need to eat more. Ignore the calories, and follow your hunger drive. It works very well if you are eating whole, low fat plant foods.

LifeForce24 · **Joined:** Fri May 25, 2012 4:15 pm **Posts:** 68

lfwfv wrote:

Also, Jeff has noted many times how notoriously inaccurate calorie calculators are. He does not recommend trying to estimate caloric needs, or count dietary calories.

He does recommend following your hunger cues and eating until satisfied.

He also recommends adjusting the calorie density of your diet to meet your personal goals (in terms of weight, energy level etc.).

But, please, read his threads about these topics, rather than having me speak for him.

If you want to gain weight, you either need to eat more food in general, or increase the calorie density of the food you eat. Or both.

If you are hungry, you need to eat more. Ignore the calories, and follow your hunger drive. It works very well if you are eating whole, low fat plant foods.

Wow
that was good info there. I didn't know Jeff taught that but it makes a LOT of sense. For years I was super confused about calorie needs because the standard measurements would have me pretty high up there around needing like 2550 for moderate activity BUT if I eat Mcdougall, I can be totally satisfied on 1700 and feel just fine and be able to maintain my weight much better.

thanks for that info. I'm going to look into his posts on that now.

GeoffreyLevens · **Posted:** Sat May 26, 2012 4:55 pm

Quote:

If you want to gain weight, you either need to eat more food in general, or increase the calorie density of the food you eat. Or both.

If you want to gain weight, do heavy resistance exercise w/ plenty of rest in between and eat according to appetite. Gaining weight by eating more it a straight line ticket to putting on fat. And you do need the rest between and if you do too much cardio i.e. cycling your body just will not add muscle mass.

misterE · **Joined:** Mon May 31, 2010 12:31 pm **Posts:** 103

Overeating (calories surplus) is key. You cannot build muscle and lose fat at the same time…because the same hormone that builds muscle; insulin, also inhibits fat-loss (lipolysis). Since you cannot build muscle and lose fat at the same time, the key is to gain more muscle than fat (a higher ratio of muscle to fat).

Look here: http://veganmaster.blogspot.com/

The higher the ratio of starch to fat, and the higher the ratio of starch to sugar allows for greater insulin-secretion. The more insulin secreted, the more both fat and protein are pushed into storage...since starch is virtually fat-free, more protein is stored than fat, which means more muscle is build than fat. The (34) studies are listed in the link.

Potatoes for instance are probably the best muscle building food there is, because 99% of the energy (minus the 1% fat which is shoved into the adipose-tissue) is shoved directly into the lean-body-mass by insulin. It is hard however to overeat potatoes because they are so satiating. 97% of the energy in white-rice is shoved into the muscle by insulin (white-rice is only 3% fat).

Exercise by itself does not build muscle (it actually breaks it down). The way exercise helps build-muscle is by increasing insulin-sensitivity, which means the food you eat afterward is going to be stored more easily in that location. In other words: exercise makes food more anabolic.

Insulin is absolutely crucial for building muscle and bone. But you only get these benefits if you are insulin-sensitive. If you are insulin-resistant, your body is resistant to the benefits of insulin!

Den32 · **Posted:** Sun May 27, 2012 12:48 am

misterE wrote:

Overeating (calories surplus) is key. You cannot build muscle and lose fat and the same time…because the same hormone that builds muscle; insulin, also inhibits fat-loss (lipolysis). Since you cannot build muscle and lose fat at the same time, the key is to gain more muscle than fat (a higher ratio of muscle to fat).

Look here: http://veganmaster.blogspot.com/

The higher the ratio of starch to fat, and the higher the ratio of starch to sugar allows for greater insulin-secretion. The more insulin secreted, the more both fat and protein are pushed into storage...since starch is virtually fat-free, more protein is stored than fat, which means more muscle is build than fat. The (34) studies are listed in the link.

Potatoes for instance are probably the best muscle building food there is, because 99% of the energy (minus the 1% fat which is shoved into the adipose-tissue) is shoved directly into the lean-body-mass by insulin. It is hard however to overeat potatoes because they are so satiating. 97% of the energy in white-rice is shoved into the muscle by insulin (white-rice is only 3% fat).

Exercise by itself does not build muscle (it actually breaks it down). The way exercise helps build-muscle is by increasing insulin-sensitivity, which means the food you eat afterward is going to be stored more easily in that location. In other words: exercise makes food more anabolic.

Insulin is absolutely crucial for building muscle and bone. But you only get these benefits if you are insulin-sensitive. If you are insulin-resistant, your body is resistant to the benefits of insulin!

Thanks for the information. It is very useful.

I am quite muscular from my previous junk food/dairy diet, however now I want to gain solid looking muscle not bloated muscle with salt and toxins as it was before.

So, I need to train in the morning my calisthenics then eat something very high carb. You are right, potatoes are too filling.
However I need more nutritious starch than rice, how do you think quinoa or buckwheat would be ok?

Den

misterE · **Joined:** Mon May 31, 2010 12:31 pm **Posts:** 103

Den32 wrote:

However I need more nutritious starch than rice, how do you think quinoa or buckwheat would be ok?

They would do well, but in my opinion the best muscle-building foods are potatoes, flour, white-rice and beans.

LifeForce24 · **Joined:** Fri May 25, 2012 4:15 pm **Posts:** 68

misterE wrote:

Den32 wrote:

However I need more nutritious starch than rice, how do you think quinoa or buckwheat would be ok?

They would do well, but in my opinion the best muscle-building foods are potatoes, flour, white-rice and beans.

While to many bodybuilders, the idea of eating a lot of potatoes (for muscle growth) may sound like utter nonsense, I can attest to its efficacy because when I was eating about 9-11 potatoes a day and doing even moderate bodybuilding, my muscles seemed to be growing MORE than when I was eating around 35% animal protein.

I am still even a little in shock, even though it's my own body I still have a hard time believing it...lol...but on McD, muscle building is not at all an issue (at least not for me).

Den32 · **Posted:** Sun May 27, 2012 11:56 pm

LifeForce24 wrote:

misterE wrote:

Den32 wrote:

However I need more nutritious starch than rice, how do you think quinoa or buckwheat would be ok?

They would do well, but in my opinion the best muscle-building foods are potatoes, flour, white-rice and beans.

While to many bodybuilders, the idea of eating a lot of potatoes (for muscle growth) may sound like utter nonsense, I can attest to its efficacy because when I was eating about 9-11 potatoes a day and doing even moderate bodybuilding, my muscles seemed to be growing MORE than when I was eating around 35% animal protein.

I am still even a little in shock, even though it's my own body I still have a hard time believing it...lol...but on McD, muscle building is not at all an issue (at least not for me).

Interesting. How much carb calories do you consume a day?

John McDougall · **Joined:** Sun Jul 30, 2006 9:08 pm **Posts:** 335

Read my July 2003 newsletter article on how to gain weight.

See: http://www.nealhendrickson.com/mcdougal ... weight.htm

John McDougall, MD

rijman · **Posted:** Mon May 28, 2012 9:41 am

John McDougall wrote:

Read my July 2003 newsletter article on how to gain weight.

See: http://www.nealhendrickson.com/mcdougal ... weight.htm

John McDougall, MD

I enjoyed the article, especially the part about perception. There are overweight people in our lives that tell my father in law and I we are too skinny and we believe we are at a healthy weight.

LifeForce24 · **Joined:** Fri May 25, 2012 4:15 pm **Posts:** 68

Den32 wrote:

LifeForce24 wrote:

lifeforce24 wrote:

[

While to many bodybuilders, the idea of eating a lot of potatoes (for muscle growth) may sound like utter nonsense, I can attest to its efficacy because when I was eating about 9-11 potatoes a day and doing even moderate bodybuilding, my muscles seemed to be growing MORE than when I was eating around 35% animal protein.

I am still even a little in shock, even though it's my own body I still have a hard time believing it...lol...but on McD, muscle building is not at all an issue (at least not for me).

Interesting. How much carb calories do you consume a day?

Here is the interesting thing, I am not even very interested in getting big, muscle wise. I've been trying to put more emphasis in getting lean, not muscular but my muscles keep growing nicely.

To answer your question, I was eating around 2,300 calories a day total, 80% as carbs. Mostly from potatoes, yams, rice and bananas. Eating that way has been far more effective than when I used to buy protein supplements and eat eggs and meat ALL day long. I still can't believe it because it almost seems to defy science, but, it's true.

The last couple of weeks, I've dropped to just 1,600 calories because I am more focused on reaching single digit body fat levels (i'm close) so I have not been doing much muscle building work and have been doing more cardio to use my time more efficiently for my goals of leaning out more.

The other interesting thing is that I was only doing 4 sets per body part with exercise bands and not even barbells and I'm still getting good results so I almost suspect that letting my muscles rest more is working better than constant lifting (not sure yet, but all the evidence seems to point to that).

I will probably put up a video of my results some weeks down the road when I get to my desired body fat level.

You shouldn't have any problems. Since you want to purely gain weight and muscle, I might aim for above 2,800 calories (total, not just carbs), probably even a little more.

GeoffreyLevens · **Posted:** Mon May 28, 2012 12:00 pm

Aiming at specific calorie targets may help but it is really pretty much impossible to accurately determine the actual number of calories you are consuming. Even if you weigh everything to the milligram, water content will vary between the same amount of the same food. Better to just follow Dr McDougall's general guidelines. Add in some more calorie dense, healthy food and eat until you are full/satisfied. When hungry, repeat. If you are still not progressing in gaining the muscle you want after a couple weeks, then just add in a bit more calories dense foods. Your body will tell you what you need with hunger. If you eat a huge meal and are really hungry again in two hours, then that could be a sign to add more calories...

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