Discussion Board

The advice has been doled out here.

Time to do what the dr says and if you're not comfortable with his/her advice, get a second or third opinion. The Australian healthcare system is probably much more evolved than the US in many ways. And anyway, we're not doctors:-)

Depending on your age you may try to find out (if you've been truly deficient for awhile) what damage you've done by not supplementing and go forth to make sure you monitor your symptoms re: deficiency and consequences.

Maybe Jeff Novick RD will chime in on this one!

Just out of curiosity, why would you not take your dr's advice to supplement B12? As a vegan did you not know that B12 deficiency was a risk?

We tend to differ on how we see and value doctors. I understand their paradigm and their limitations in relation to dietary matters. Last year, when I injured my lower back, a sport doctor recommended a disk operation. I refused and I totally recovered without taking a single medical tablet and without an operation. I took Alexander Techinque lessons and few chiro sessions. It is choice that we make in life. Most doctors are driven by their economical needs ( and greed) and not the patient's best interest.


Have you read chapter 11 of The Starch solution ? Dr McDougall has been very clear and consistent with his message - a healthy veagan's risk of developing a disease from B12 deficiency is extremely rare - page 163. It was the same message that I learnt some 10 years ago when I studied Dr McDougall's DVD's on the total solution.

It is the same reason that now I am not taking Vit D, knowing well I am Vit D deficient. I'd rather make the effort and be in the sun for 30 min daily than overload my body with tablets.

10 years ago, I took charge of my health and my body. Most of the GP are the same. They have written more or less te same medical exams.

in case this wasn't posted in this thread, here's what McD says about B12. so each can decide for themselves. I choose to take B12 and now have methylcobalamin.

http://drmcdougall.com/misc/2007nl/nov/b12.htm

summary: >>The long-term consequences of B-12 supplementation are unknown; so far this vitamin appears to be non-toxic and beneficial. As a result, I currently have no hesitation recommending supplements to strict vegetarians in order to prevent the rare chance of a deficiency occuring.>>

Thanks Donna. I am familiar with this article. An update version of this article is included in chapter 11 of the Starch Solution book.

As I said earlier, this week for the first time after 10 years, I took a B12 injection. The discussion is now about the GP who injected me and his questionable recommendations.

I understand being wary. I am too. I was very sick as a child and young adult and as a result understand how very limited many doctors can be. The specialist in charge of my health then did the very best for me at the time and very likely saved my life, but I did question him and challenge him along the way. Doctors are totally limited to their training and it's up to us as patients to be our own advocates and be informed. It's ok to question doctors and their treatments. I haven't been to the Dr in years. I made an appt for a physical with a nurse practitioner in hopes that I can find a provider who can be my partner in health. If we're not on the same page, I will seek out another.

Your doctor said there were no ramifications of not consuming B12? Did he go to medical school? What about pernicious anemia, which is fatal is left untreated? Maybe you need to find another doctor.

Hurray oregonmom ! We are on the same page re medical doctors.

Woollyprimate, in this case I was referring to Dr McDougall. Refer to The Starch solution page 163, lines 20-22. And you know what, he is right. Only this week and after 10 years since I turned vegan, I took B12 supplements with the expectation to redress some minor issues of sporadic and infrequent spells of dizziness and instability.

@mcfruit--are you feeling nay better since you got a b12 shot?

we were taking sublingual B 12. but recently i found out that the b12 we were taking was the inferior form ==cyanocobalamin.. so we switched to the superior form--the type that nourishes the brain [ the methylcobalamin type ] a few weeks ago i looked into vit b 12 shots because i started reading all this stuff about how low B 12
can affect memory & the brain...and energy levels. i read that B12 can be lowered or depleted by stress and alcohol. I read that seniors who are forgetful & who fall can have low B12.
we haven't fallen [ yet ]- but we were forgetting things! i also have read that even if you are not vegan
or vegetarian you can become low or deficient in B 12 due to absorbtion problems. I read that like 40% of
people over age 60 have low B12. Then i saw that our local Sprouts health food store offers B12 shots given by a woman naturopath on Saturdays.
we each took a B12 shot for 3 consecutive Saturdays. and we are now taking the methyl form of sublingual b12.

now we'll get a b12 shot a month for the next 3 months. we really do feel better --we feel mentally clearer and we have just a feeling of greater well being. I highly recommend them.

You can't overdose-the liver stores B12 but when it can not store more B12, it just gets excreted in the urine.

shell-belle,

It is only a few days since I started the B12 treatement - both daily sublingual methylcobalami B 12 and the first weekly injection. I am not sure the injection type, I will check it out and ensure that my next injection is methylcobalami.


I know that I feel different but I am not sure how to verbalise it. I feel that I have more energy and more consistently througout the day. Specially in the evening, I used to feel totally and utterly debilitated. Now I feel I can handle it and have enough energy to get through the evening proactively. I also noticed that my attitute has changed. Whereby before, I will walk away from niggling matters, now I have the stamina and energy to push back while remaining in control. I am not sure whether I am overanalysing it. But it feels different.

I will be interested to hear others' experiences and views following B12 treatement for the first time.

Thanks everyone. Today I am supposed to go for my second B12 injection. I have figured out that last week's injection was Hydroxocobalamin (OHCbl, or B12a) and everyoby on this forum is recommending Methylcobalamin.

I could not locate it locally and I might have to order it online from a company in Sydney.

What are your thoughts on Methylcobalamin vs Hydroxocobalamin? Would you agree that I wait unitl I get hold of Methylcobalamin (either tablet or injection)?

Cheers

Hydro is what most shots are. For sublingual, methyl is better than cyano. Cyano is better than nothing but methyl is absorbed better.

Thanks for the clarification ETeSelle.

Cheers

Just a quick update. Yesterday I got my blood results as follows:

Vitamin B12 360 pmol/L ( reference range 150 - 700)

I am not sure how to convert it to the US metrics. It seems to me OK as it is within th range. At the previous test result, it was 144 (below the lower limit of the range). It took one injection and daily B12 sublingual after 10 years of veganism without any B12 supplement.

Questions :
A) Shall I continue with the sublingual B12 supplement or shall I stop ?
B) What does 360 pmol/L convert to in the US ?

I forgot to ask to get test for vitamin. I guess I will have to wait for my next blood test which I will do when I reach my target weight of 65 kg ( currently 71.4 kg).

I have been vegan now for over 5 years. I have been tested for B12 starting at the 3 year period that Dr. McDougall speaks of as the time your body can store B12 in the liver. I have been poorly and sporadically taking Methyl B12 since then. When I mean poorly I mean like one tablet a month if I remember! Well at the 5.5 year mark my blood workup showed I was in the low normal range after all previous tests have shown me well into the normal range. My guess is all of us have different abilities to store and use B12. Since I tested in the low normal range I am stepping up my B12 dosage to something between what my previous habit has been and what the label recommends and I'll be watching to see the result. I hope to gain insight as to what supplementation levels will keep me in a mid-normal range. I was surprised that I had not experienced a drop of of B12 before this. The test is easily added to any blood workup and most doctors won't hesitate if you tell them you are vegan.
f1jim

I find that if I have something scheduled daily or weekly it's easier to remember than biweekly or monthly. So I take a weekly B12 sublingual even though I don't really need to supplement that often. (My husband picked up 5000 mcg tabs when I asked him to get 500; I decided to just take them rather than return them.) I also had my B12 tested recently after being strictly vegan for a year, and was well within normal levels.