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 Post subject: Re: The reason we don't bring up diet to others
PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2012 2:23 pm 
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Gramma Jackie wrote:
Well I have brought it up and all I got was criticism and arguments. So, like Dr. McDougall says in his books, I decided to be an example rather than preaching about it. I've made it pretty clear how I intend to eat and my family is fine with that, but they are not interested in reading about a plant based diet much less eating that way and I can't force them to change even though they need to.

My thoughts exactly. Change has to come from within.

I also think frozenveg made a great point earlier in this thread. When we say that this way of eating can prevent or reverse heart disease and a host of other diseases, it makes a lot of people mad because it appears that we are blaming the heart patient or the diabetic or the cancer patient for being sick, not sympathizing with the patient.

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 Post subject: Re: The reason we don't bring up diet to others
PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2012 5:17 pm 
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Caroveggie wrote:
I really see it as passing on not-much-known information to people who need it. Frankly I'm getting tired of doctors who are not doing their jobs.

I feel this is very valuable information that is not well known and other people deserve a chance for better health.


I agree totally. It is like someone yells at the grocery clerk, who goes home to yell at the wife, who then yells at the child, who yells at the next child and goes on and on to where the dog herds the cow. The cycle of the metabolic/fat dollar has to stop. When it stops with me, I know the best revenge is to be happy and healthy and that is the gift I have to give away, to receive it, to have it, to be it, because the cycle has to be reversed. No/know is the perfect sound in the universe. Crisis is the portal to opportunity, feedback is vital.

Aloha, patty


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 Post subject: Re: The reason we don't bring up diet to others
PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2012 5:56 pm 
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Don't highlight the negatives. :) Even as causes for change, they never work well.

What I do is tell people that I love the way I eat, and go into detail about what a lovely bean dish I'd be making at home that day...mmmm. People will naturally respond well to that, and they've even gone on to improve their eating and buying habits because of things I've said. It's fantastic, to know I'm making some difference in their lives. Most people aren't ready for a big change.


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 Post subject: Re: The reason we don't bring up diet to others
PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2012 6:07 pm 
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I've read that sharing a good idea or opportunity is similar to a waitress going around, asking if anyone would like coffee. Some people want it, and others don't like coffee. Some may need to think about it and ask for coffee when she comes by again. They aren't putting US down for sharing, they are putting down the idea, or muling over if it is for them.


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 Post subject: Re: The reason we don't bring up diet to others
PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2012 6:14 pm 
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soliver wrote:
I've read that sharing a good idea or opportunity is similar to a waitress going around, asking if anyone would like coffee. Some people want it, and others don't like coffee. Some may need to think about it and ask for coffee when she comes by again. They aren't putting US down for sharing, they are putting down the idea, or muling over if it is for them.

I think a better analogy is asking if anyone would like to change their religion. That is about how deep this goes and is a much closer marker of what you will get back from those who have not asked first.


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 Post subject: Re: The reason we don't bring up diet to others
PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2012 9:00 pm 
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GeoffreyLevens wrote:
I think a better analogy is asking if anyone would like to change their religion. That is about how deep this goes and is a much closer marker of what you will get back from those who have not asked first.

I've been eating this way for five years. The first couple of years I was so excited to find this information that I couldn't help myself and I talked to everyone. I've realized over the years that eating is extremely personal to people and it really is similar to asking people to change their religion or political views.

I have noticed one thing that is really cool. Many people start taking steps to improve their diet, just because they see me doing it. Even people who seemed to be the most ardent opponents of a plant based diet, start eating more plant based foods. I've learned that people are paying attention to our example even when we think they are not. Today I only volunteer information if someone shows an interest, because I know they are more impacted by the example we set.

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 Post subject: Re: The reason we don't bring up diet to others
PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2012 10:15 pm 
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Health is the greatest motivator as nothing motivates anyone more than life or death. The simplest changes of soaking ones feet can cascade into a avalanche of desire to change their habitual habits by taking responsibility in how they think, eat and move. And what is so exciting is subconsciously we eat the same amount of weight of food daily. How easy can it be? The body doesn't lie. Body language is 80% and verbal is 20%. How difficult is it to be a medical intuitive for a friend and within your environment? It is a yes, no and wait process. Placebo is the new medicine we all carry:) It is just to get out of the outcome.

I love this from Bruce Lipton on Epigenetics:
Quote:
“Our health is not controlled by genetics,” he told me in his characteristically upbeat and excited manner. “Conventional medicine is operating from an archaic view that we’re controlled by genes. This misunderstands the nature of how biology works.”

Medical professionals from around the globe may curl their lips and snarl, but Dr. Lipton’s research—and the empirical evidence of colleagues—is forcing the issue enough so that changes in medical-school curriculums are currently underway.

But let’s back up for a moment and sit through a blessedly unscientific explanation of Lipton’s mind-expanding logic and what is known as epigenetics, “the study of inherited changes in phenotype (appearance) or gene expression caused by mechanisms other than changes in the underlying DNA sequence.”

“Medicine does miracles,” he said, “but it’s limited to trauma. The AMA protocol is to regard our physical body like a machine, in the same way that an auto mechanic regards a car. When the parts break, you replace them—a transplant, synthetic joints, and so on—and those are medical miracles.

“The problem is that while they have an understanding that the mechanism isn’t working, they’re blaming the vehicle for what went wrong. They believe that the vehicle, in this case our bodies, is controlled by genes. But guess what? They don’t take into consideration that there’s actually a driver in that car. The new science, epigenetics, reveals that the vehicles—or the genes—aren’t responsible for the breakdown. It’s the driver.”

In essence, if you don’t know how to drive, you’re going to mess up the vehicle. In the simplest translation, we can agree that lifestyle is the key to taking care of ourselves. Think well, eat well, and exercise, and your body won’t break down and need new parts.

Dr. Lipton refers to the work of Dr. Dean Ornish to extrapolate. “Dr. Ornish has taken conventional cardiovascular patients, provided them with important lifestyle insights (better diet, stress-reduction techniques, and so on), and without drugs, the cardiovascular disease was resolved. Ornish relayed that if he’d gotten the same results with a drug, every doctor would be prescribing it.”


And further down he goes on to say:
Quote:
“There’s a force moving within us, a biological imperative to survive and to avoid death. It’s built in. Right now, there’s the question of our own extinction, and none of us want to die.”

What is it in the subconscious mind of the individual—or the collective whole—that takes us to the brink of destruction? Only through entering the world of the subconscious mind’s programming will we find out. “I was living in a self-imposed world that resembled purgatory,” Dr. Lipton recalled in a quiet voice. “I thought, ‘What the hell is wrong with this world?’ Now I’m walking in heaven. I’ve recognized who I really am and have rewritten the limiting programs that disempowered me.”

The new science of epigenetics promises that every person on the planet has the opportunity to become who they really are, complete with unimaginable power and the ability to operate from, and go for, the highest possibilities, including healing our bodies and our culture and living in peace. ***


http://www.brucelipton.com/articles/epigenetics/

Aloha, patty


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 Post subject: Re: The reason we don't bring up diet to others
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 6:15 am 
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Quote:
I think a better analogy is asking if anyone would like to change their religion.


To some a suggestion of changing diet can be like changing their religion, and to others like changing their clothes.

A lot of people are changing their diets, going from one diet to another looking for the 'magic bullet'. They aren't as resistant to change.

Women who are talkative tend to be more open to sharing and receiving new ideas and like to pass on information that can be life-changing and exciting. Many are grateful to those who shared with them what they never knew before - they are truly grateful. Even those who were originally resistant to the idea.

With all the awareness about foods & health now, and the internet passing around information so quickly, people just seem more open than ever about dietary change.


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 Post subject: Re: The reason we don't bring up diet to others
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 8:27 am 
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dstewart wrote:

I was thinking when people start sharing their business with us like their illnesses, disease and weight issues and we have the opportunity to share.


Yes - agree and that is when I share-when someone mentions a health issue.


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 Post subject: Re: The reason we don't bring up diet to others
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 9:15 am 
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soliver wrote:
Quote:
I think a better analogy is asking if anyone would like to change their religion.
To some a suggestion of changing diet can be like changing their religion, and to others like changing their clothes.
On that same note, some people change religions like changing their clothes... which only illustrates that there are plenty of people in the world who are perfectly able and willing to change. For the die-hards who aren't able or willing to change... we must plant the seeds so they have time to sprout and grow.
We must not write off large numbers of people simply because they can't or wont change quickly. I wouldn't be where I am today if someone hadn't planted seeds in my thought processes. In my case, it was more than one person over quite a few years. I was talking to one of them a while ago and he was recalling my former hostile attitudes towards him about this subject. We also talked about my success in convincing others to this way of living and he lamented that he hasn't had any success in all the years he tried. I pointed out that he was a major influence in my changes and that things he said to me years ago eventually made me more receptive to things other people were saying. He didn't see the connection and thought I was just being kind to him. I wasn't just being kind to him. He planted seeds that took years to sprout. And yes, others came along and watered those seeds, but he had planted them. Even with all that laid out for him he didn't see that my changes had anything to do with our conversations years ago.
And so it is with all of us. We never know what seeds we plant will sprout and when, and we may never know if future changes in other people had anything to do with us at all. But know this... if you plant enough seeds.. some are going to sprout. Never doubt this.
My friend, whether he realizes it or not, has had a hand in not only the changes I've made, but in the changes anyone I influence in the future, and anyone they influence, and so on, and so on.
I hope all of you who feel you can't influence people to change keep this in mind and move away from an "I can't change anyone" attitude to an "I can plant seeds that can help people change" attitude.

-Norm

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 Post subject: Re: The reason we don't bring up diet to others
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 8:59 pm 
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I would agree with Norm there because the sad thing is that this information is just not known. It's not just about looking good at a better weight, this is real health. It stops MS, rheumatoid arthritis, reverses type 2 diabetes and helps those with type 1 avoid the complications (the really horrible part of the disease), prevents and reverses heart attacks, and slows the growth of cancer cells, among other things. Most doctors when confronted with a MS patient or a juvenile rheumatoid arthritis patient ~ or any of the things I mentioned ~ are not going to be recommending this diet or even telling their patient about it at all and instead put them on dangerous drugs. They will even tell patients diet has nothing to do with it! Just look at all the Star McDougaller stories and what their experiences were with their regular doctors.

I would much rather error on the side of slightly offending someone and plant a seed than on the side of not bringing up this valuable information to someone who might really need to know it. Then it is up to them to change. And I say slightly because like most people, I am tactful. :)

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 Post subject: Re: The reason we don't bring up diet to others
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 7:42 am 
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Maybe this question of "should I or shouldn't I talk about what constitutes a healthy diet?" puts us in the position of that kid in school who always had straight As.

The other kids on the classroom didn't like that guy or gal who always had completed the homework assignments, would raise his or her hand in class to answer questions posed by the teacher and would always score highest on the exams.

The "cool" kids bragged about they totally didn't study at all for the exam and might totally flunk out because watching the Simpsons was much more fun than studying.

But while the "smart kid" was often unpopular and many kids rooted for that smart kid to make a mistake or have something bad happen to him, other kids in the class wanted to be friends with that smart kid.

Why? They wanted the study habits of the smart kid to rub off on them. They thought that the smart kid could answer questions about algebra or chemistry or history that confused the heck of them. And they thought that hard work and discipline was a good attribute for a person to have, not a sign of weirdness.

So, those of us who "answer questions in class" are always going to have some people admiring us for our healthy diets and the way we push away donuts in favor of fruit. But we are also going to have those who will get angry at our example due to the implicit suggestion that they need to delay gratification beyond their next meal.

There's a ying and yang to everything, I guess. :!:

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“If you step back and look at the data, the optimum amount of red meat you eat should be zero.” -Walter Willett, M.D.

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 Post subject: Re: The reason we don't bring up diet to others
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 8:16 am 
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Spiral wrote:
There's a ying and yang to everything, I guess. :!:
Very good analogy, Spiral. And one that rings full of truth.

Nobody likes the negative attention they receive for being outspoken. And there is plenty. I tend to focus on the positive results, but yes, there are also negative reactions. They can be minimized by learning how to best deal with people, and the positive can be maximized the same way, but there is still the negative to deal with.

So the question is: Are we going to let the fear of the negative side of that equation keep us from experiencing the positive side? Too many of us do, and I find that sad. I also find it somewhat self-centered. Not the kind of self-centered where people are actively seeking the spotlight and everything becomes about them...... that kind is obvious to everyone and despised by most. But the more insidious kind of self-centered where we seek to avoid attention at all costs. If you think about it... people of both extremes are thinking only of themselves, and both are equally wrong, only one is more destructive than the other because one is often mistaken as having the virtues of humbleness, meekness, quietness, etc. At least the more obvious form of being self-centered is kept in check to some degree by social interaction.

It's not about us!! It's about the food. And when it comes to our fellow man we should have more than a "they can figure it out for themselves" attitude. We need to actively help them figure it out whenever we can!

-Norm

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 Post subject: Re: The reason we don't bring up diet to others
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 8:36 am 
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patty wrote:
Health is the greatest motivator as nothing motivates anyone more than life or death. The simplest changes of soaking ones feet can cascade into a avalanche of desire to change their habitual habits by taking responsibility in how they think, eat and move. And what is so exciting is subconsciously we eat the same amount of weight of food daily. How easy can it be? The body doesn't lie.

Alas, this is not true for a large number of people. I have a sister-in-law with cancer. She smokes, and pretends to certain people that she has quit. She has decided to change her diet, in response to her cancer (to its to date promising treatment, that is) to vegan four times. But you know, she just "can't give up meat, or cheese." Not even for her life. What motivates her is what she likes to eat, regardless of what it does to her, and the myriad rationalizations for smoking (it's not lung cancer, I'm tense, it's hard to quit). Each of these unhelpful things she does is a direct response to physical pleasure and comfort. An ideal body, in the abstract, considered for its needs, doesn't lie, but then it's also not a real thing. For people, the body lies constantly.

How I wish health, life and death, were the greatest motivators. This is wildly at variance with observation, however.


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 Post subject: Re: The reason we don't bring up diet to others
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 9:29 am 
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dstewart wrote:
patty wrote:
Health is the greatest motivator as nothing motivates anyone more than life or death. The simplest changes of soaking ones feet can cascade into a avalanche of desire to change their habitual habits by taking responsibility in how they think, eat and move. And what is so exciting is subconsciously we eat the same amount of weight of food daily. How easy can it be? The body doesn't lie.

Alas, this is not true for a large number of people. I have a sister-in-law with cancer. She smokes, and pretends to certain people that she has quit. She has decided to change her diet, in response to her cancer (to its to date promising treatment, that is) to vegan four times. But you know, she just "can't give up meat, or cheese." Not even for her life. What motivates her is what she likes to eat, regardless of what it does to her, and the myriad rationalizations for smoking (it's not lung cancer, I'm tense, it's hard to quit). Each of these unhelpful things she does is a direct response to physical pleasure and comfort. An ideal body, in the abstract, considered for its needs, doesn't lie, but then it's also not a real thing. For people, the body lies constantly.

How I wish health, life and death, were the greatest motivators. This is wildly at variance with observation, however.


In AA you learn the not picking up the drink is like the tip of the ice berg. It is a thinking disease. The mind can get it instant that they are addicted to smoking or whatever substance that is abusing their body, but it might take the body a life time. That is why no one addicted to smoking can smoke one or two cigarettes a day or a alcoholic can have one drink and not be physically effected. Addiction is a disease that tells the addict they are not addicted. It is the mind that lies not the body. Its too bad I have witnessed a lot of deaths along with recovery. And I have seen many people recover from alcoholism who are sent to meetings by the court system. And some if they had a choice would have chosen jail as they still could have kept practicing their drug of choice. I love when Dr. McDougall shares when going to the doctor he doesn't he doesn't tell the person with lung cancer to keep smoking.. or the alcoholic to keep drinking. I work with people who are getting ready to make their physical transition and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to put together their lifestyle and their condition as their identity is the lifestyle they share with their culture. That is why it is so frustrating when you know subconsciously we eat the same amount of weight of food daily and it is only the higher density foods that are easy to overeat. As Dr. McDougall shares the oil you eat the oil you wear. Look at the oil crisis today. Look at the medical crisis.. what is the fat the medical industry is wearing? Gamblers you can't smell or see. They look normal. Don't buy the masquerade. Everyone has that 300 lb. monkey on their back.

The conscious mind is like the creative mind of the keyboard of the computer, the subconscious is like the processor a million time faster than the keyboard. In AA the second step tells the person they have a thinking disease. The only requirement to AA/NA/OA is the desire to stop drinking (using). Sometimes the person has to pray for the willingness to stop. Desire and suffering come from the same root. A alcoholic/addict only has recovery one day dependent on a Spiritual reprieve. Some people stay sick to teach you how to get well as some get well to teach you how to get well. There is no judgement, no one is thrown off the bus of addiction.

In the above link Bruce Lipton goes on to share about cancer:
Quote:
That’s fine and dandy for people with heart disease, diabetes, or obesity, but what about cancer? Even the strictest lifestyle changes don’t cure cancer in everyone. What about genetic predispositions to getting the disease? “It used to be that we thought a mutant gene caused cancer,” Lipton admitted, “but with epigenetics, all of that has changed.”

Then he explained how his research revealed the science of epigenetics. “I placed one stem cell into a culture dish, and it divided every ten hours. After two weeks, there were thousands of cells in the dish, and they were all genetically identical, having been derived from the same parent cell. I divided the cell population and inoculated them in three different culture dishes.

“Next, I manipulated the culture medium—the cell’s equivalent of the environment—in each dish. In one dish, the cells became bone, in another, muscle, and in the last dish, fat. This demonstrated that the genes didn’t determine the fate of the cells because they all had the exact same genes. The environment determined the fate of the cells, not the genetic pattern. So if cells are in a healthy environment, they are healthy. If they’re in an unhealthy environment, they get sick.”

Dr. Lipton then took this a step further, which brings us back to the cancer question. “Here’s the connection: With fifty trillion cells in your body, the human body is the equivalent of a skin-covered petri dish. Moving your body from one environment to another alters the composition of the ‘culture medium,’ the blood. The chemistry of the body’s culture medium determines the nature of the cell’s environment within you. The blood’s chemistry is largely impacted by the chemicals emitted from your brain. Brain chemistry adjusts the composition of the blood based upon your perceptions of life. So this means that your perception of any given thing, at any given moment, can influence the brain chemistry, which, in turn, affects the environment where your cells reside and controls their fate. In other words, your thoughts and perceptions have a direct and overwhelmingly significant effect on cells.”

This echoes, from a highly scientific point of view, what the intuitive and spiritual healers have been advocating for years: your mind can and does contribute to both the cause and healing of whatever ails you—including cancer.

Other than the mind, two other factors impact the fate of cells, according to Dr. Lipton: toxins and trauma. All three factors have been associated with the onset of cancer.

With this body of knowledge comes promising news. According to Dr. Lipton, gene activity can change on a daily basis. If the perception in your mind is reflected in the chemistry of your body, and if your nervous system reads and interprets the environment and then controls the blood’s chemistry, then you can literally change the fate of your cells by altering your thoughts. In fact, Dr. Lipton’s research illustrates that by changing your perception, your mind can alter the activity of your genes and create over thirty thousand variations of products from each gene. He gives more detail by saying that the gene programs are contained within the nucleus of the cell, and you can rewrite those genetic programs through changing your blood chemistry.

In the simplest terms, this means that we need to change the way we think if we are to heal cancer. “The function of the mind is to create coherence between our beliefs and the reality we experience,” Dr. Lipton said. “What that means is that your mind will adjust the body’s biology and behavior to fit with your beliefs. If you’ve been told you’ll die in six months and your mind believes it, you most likely will die in six months. That’s called the nocebo effect, the result of a negative thought, which is the opposite of the placebo effect, where healing is mediated by a positive thought.”

That dynamic points to a three-party system: there’s the part of you that swears it doesn’t want to die (the conscious mind), trumped by the part that believes you will (the doctor’s prognosis mediated by the subconscious mind), which then throws into gear the chemical reaction (mediated by the brain’s chemistry) to make sure the body conforms to the dominant belief. (Neuroscience has recognized that the subconscious controls 95 percent of our lives.)

Now what about the part that doesn’t want to die—the conscious mind? Isn’t it impacting the body’s chemistry as well? Dr. Lipton said that it comes down to how the subconscious mind, which contains our deepest beliefs, has been programmed. It is these beliefs that ultimately cast the deciding vote.

“It’s a complex situation,” said Dr. Lipton. People have been programmed to believe that they’re victims and that they have no control. We’re programmed from the start with our mother and father’s beliefs. So, for instance, when we got sick, we were told by our parents that we had to go to the doctor because the doctor is the authority concerning our health. We all got the message throughout childhood that doctors were the authority on health and that we were victims of bodily forces beyond our ability to control. The joke, however, is that people often get better while on the way to the doctor. That’s when the innate ability for self-healing kicks in, another example of the placebo effect.


It is important to keep seeing your sister as a Light body. Opposites aren't able to occupy the same space.. if the room is dark and you turn on the Light, the darkness leaves. The opposite of the physical is the invisible, keep seeing the physical being healed by the invisible with a God of your understanding, for myself it began with leaf on tree with a room filled with drunks. Many who are no longer in the physical realm, only to occupy my Spiritual domain. My heart goes out to you. And for your sister, there for the Grace of God go I.

Aloha, patty


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