Discussion Board

Hi, we read that olive oil to stir fry veggies gives you better lab results (cholesterol , HDL and LDL are lower) when you eat olive oil in your diet. But they actually did autopsies on some people that had good cholesterols with use of olive oil and found they had terrible atheroschlerosis. So, this finally convinced us that apparently there is some confusion in the medical community about the Greek diet being the best. Apparently, the Greek diet (anti-inflammatory diet) was given out after WWII. We were on that diet up until recently. Now we are trying to switch to the McDougall diet. But, it is hard to know what to eat when we go out to eat. Anyway, my husband is on Crestor (several years) and Niaspan (1 year) and his platelet count dropped to 135,000 and his AST went up a bit. Also, our doctor has us do a VAP panel to check the VLDL etc. His triglycerides are good. But, his profile gives him a B profile (a lot of small dense LDL). Can the Mcdougall diet change your lipid type so that he will have more large buoyant LDL? We haven't yet talked to our doctor about this change in diet. But, we will at some point. We hope that he can get off these meds. If not switch to a lesser toxic type. I wonder if it is the Niaspan in combination with the Crestor since he was ok on just Crestor.
Thank you,
mkh9

The studies showing improvements in lipid profiles are seemingly when the oil is used in place of other more dangerous fats and oils. Not compared to a diet excluding added oils. We welcome your giving this way of eating a try and seeing what happens to his lipids with the added oil removed. My guess is you will be pleased with the results. Getting of the meds is always the ideal. Let's see if we can get you there.
f1jim

Thanks, I sure hope this diet without added oils can improve my husbands cholesterol and try to get off the drugs. I'll check your story out that is wonderful! I'm still trying to find out which pan to get!
mkh9

Yes this WOE will change the the LDL profile:

Eat a diet very rich in soluble fiber (BYOBB) – Beans, Yams, Oats, Barley, and Berries, etc.
Eat fewer refined carbohydrates (replace with complex starches)
Eat much less (no) saturated and trans fats and cholesterol
Exercise regularly, and
Lose excess weight. BMI under 25

See: http://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2003nl/030100putamingelevatedtriglycerides.htm

http://atvb.ahajournals.org/content/15/1/105.short


http://www.nature.com/oby/journal/v17/n9/abs/oby2009146a.html
j

I understand the second response regarding losing weight (adiposity) will lower the pattern from B to A. But not sure I understand going from large Buoyant (what you don't want) to small dense LDL. Is it the APOE is a better type of small LDL than the B type is which small and can clog pores. Would you explain.
thanks a lot.
mkh9

You know I reread the first article I cited and I think I misread it and that it is not relevant. As far as I know there is only one "B" type particle.

Here is a link to a a better explanation:The Role of LDL Particle Size Assessment http://www.centerforpreventivemedicine.com/04114med_messenger.pdf



The basis point is correct as you understand it. You do not want small dense LDL particles.

J

Thank you very much for the explanation great articles.
mkh9

Your welcome.

One thing to note is that the particle size will change for the better fairly fast, in a matter of weeks, as will all the lipids. His profile will improve faster following the MWL (Maximum weight loss) plan. Read about it here: http://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2005nl/050100pupushing.htm

I believe that the steps you are taking will add quality years to his life.

Post back his progress and welcome to the boards.

j

Thanks again. I read the last link. If we follow the 12 day meal plan
(on line plan) should we have only one serving per meal per day? Then after getting your best BMI should can we increase the number of servings. I read the last link and it sounds like you can have a lot more than one serving.

Secondly, how long would you wait before getting another blood test for the VAP panel. My husband is supposed to get restested in September. If we stick to this program thoughout that period will that be plenty of time to see a change in the type B change to Type A?

One more question. My husband is on Crestor (50mg or the lowest dose) and Niaspan (1000mg). He had a CBC, and chemistry profile done in addition to the VAP panel. He was drinking 1 glass of red wine a day then had the blood test. His platelet count was 135,000 (normal 150,000 to 450,000) and his AST was high 41 U/L (normal range 15-37). Would red wine with these drugs really change the platelet count or could there be something else going on? He has quit drinking all alcohol as directed by his doctor and will be retested in 4 months.

Oop, I was wrong on the last post it was 10mg Crestor not 50mg.
thanks,
mkh9

I am confused by your first question: one serving of what? If you are referring to fruit, you need to limit it until weight is optimal. Beside wight your goal is to change LDL and triglycerides levels. Fruits and any simple/refined carbs will tend to raise these.

Second question about the blood test: Again what is your goal. If you follow the above recommendations you are doing the best you can outside of the Rx model. I would wait until the ideal weight is achieved, then the test would have the most value.

Third question about the CBC panel results: I don't know. I am not an MD. But I don't think the wine would affect platelets. AST is a liver test and is just barely above normal. Lots of thing affect the liver including alcohol and drugs like statins. What did the Doctor say?

j

First question is regarding the McDougall on line 12 day meals. I was wondering about whether we had to stick to one serving of each of these meals they posted. The Family practise doc said that platelets and liver enzymes could be affected. Supposedly the platelets are a liver marker. I was hoping someone would more about this as we have to wait 4 months before going back to the doctor. Ok as to waiting until the weight is lost or a good BMI that make sense.
thanks,
mkh9

Sorry, I don't understand Jay's cited article. It looks like the nice fluffy LDL particles (which you want) decrease in the absence of fats and on a lower fat diet you get more of the smaller particles which are the dangerous ones. Could someone set me straight if I am wrong.

Didi

That citation was not on point and I should not have used it, as I said above.

The question you asked was about LDL particle size and how to change the ratio of A/B. The main factors for this specific question have to do more with reducing the triglyceride from sugar and refined carbs than fat consumption.

That cited study only looked at just changing the amount of fat consumed, leaving other factor the same in total calories. But what the study appear to have done was substituent the higher fat calories with refined carb calories by 20%. Raising your intake of refined carb (sugar, corn syrup, etc) will RAISE triglycerides and inversely and negatively effect the A/B ratio.

So the point of this limited study is that decreasing fat intake from 46% to 24% and substituting the lost calories with sugar will raise the bad LDL A/B ratio.

However, in this WOE neither is recommended because the best answer and results are to eliminate both fat and processed food. When your LDL becomes low enough the A/B ratio is not as significant, if at all, a risk factor for CVD.

I hope this addresses your question.

J