Evolution or Creation

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Evolution or Creation

Postby jaysmetalart » Thu Feb 23, 2012 3:55 pm

Do you believe we humans were created by Ape's?, or do you believe we were created by God?...I asked my daughter this question, I already knew she believes in creation, because my wife and I taught her bible doctrine. but she told me something that I thought was interesting. She said it takes more faith to believe in the whole evolution concept, then to believe in God.....What do you think?....Jay
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Re: Evolution or Creation

Postby Katydid » Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:48 pm

No. I believe that humans and apes share a common ancestor. I'm a scientist and a Deist. I believe that the scientific and natural worlds are a reflection of God's power and complexity. I believe that God set the world into motion and set up certain rules that all life has to follow. Evolution and natural selection are simply a part of those rules, and are far more beautiful than any creation myth.
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Re: Evolution or Creation

Postby pinkrose » Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:40 pm

jaysmetalart wrote:Do you believe we humans were created by Ape's?, or do you believe we were created by God?...I asked my daughter this question, I already knew she believes in creation, because my wife and I taught her bible doctrine. but she told me something that I thought was interesting. She said it takes more faith to believe in the whole evolution concept, then to believe in God.....What do you think?....Jay


I agree with your daughter. It takes a lot more "faith" than I have to believe that all of the complexities of the world (especially living things) are merely accidents. :-D
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Re: Evolution or Creation

Postby squarepusher » Fri Feb 24, 2012 9:19 am

Is the God you believe in too weak to be able to design a method of evolution?
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Re: Evolution or Creation

Postby soliver » Fri Feb 24, 2012 2:10 pm

We rented some DVD's called creatures that defy evolution. They take some very interesting animals and their designs, functions, etc. and show how they couldn't have evolved. Our local library had them available, they are wonderful and great for the whole family.
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Re: Evolution or Creation

Postby pinkrose » Fri Feb 24, 2012 3:56 pm

squarepusher wrote:Is the God you believe in too weak to be able to design a method of evolution?


Squarepusher, the God that I believe in has given me a Book. In this Book, He said that He created the cosmos in six days. I believe it. Only He has no weaknesses.

See

http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/isd/index.asp
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Re: Evolution or Creation

Postby Knut » Fri Feb 24, 2012 8:49 pm

"She said it takes more faith to believe in the whole evolution concept, then to believe in God.....What do you think?....Jay"

Fascinating that in 2012... in the US... that there are people who still believe this.

"They take some very interesting animals and their designs, functions, etc. and show how they couldn't have evolved." soliver

Seriously?

"Squarepusher, the God that I believe in has given me a Book. In this Book, He said that He created the cosmos in six days. I believe it. Only He has no weaknesses." pinkrose

Fascinating. Not sure... but perhaps reading the history of who wrote the various books of the Bible, the whys and wherefores would clear some of that up...

No disrespect intended to anyone... and though I don't believe in any God or gods nor any supernatural entities or experiences... none of this goes to show that there isn't some deity somewhere doing something. Though I doubt it.... and a deity who cares about what human beings do, not a chance IMHO. This from a former Christian who taught at a Christian college. Word of advice... if you want to continue believing in 'God'... stay away from libraries and research into biblical history, comparative history, and the history of world religions...

That said... when people use their beliefs to the betterment of other people and to do 'good works'...(Matt: 25:36 etc.) I'll be right there with them. When they use their beliefs to increase hatred, fear, intolerance and to abuse the civil rights of other people... I'll expose them at every turn...

“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?” Epicurus

Peace
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Re: Evolution or Creation

Postby 25752b » Fri Feb 24, 2012 9:06 pm

Always such a spirited debate, any of this. If you will watch "Flight from Death: the search for immortality" at least 2 times, you can challenge your self. Get honest. then, share your opinions.

Also, no disrespect intended here, but if you want to open the conversation, here goes:

How could any one religion be the "right" one, when to be so, it must exclude others? What kind of God would exclude or entertain the duality of this world? What was going on before religions were invented? People have been here long before the variations on herding people into dictated religious practices came about.

What we do not know is so vast compared to what we think we know. All of what we do is to create illusion in order to feel safe, or in control, both of which are not actually attainable. the FEAR of this is so SUB-conscious and yet so intense we do all sorts of things to try and quell our fears.
Finding others that think like we do is a perfect example of this. We like it when others validate what we think or do, gives us a sense of being right, and being right makes us feel superior. An ego driven desire.

Another great movie is "I AM" by Tom Shadyac. He deomonstrates (again) the interconnectedness of us all, and everything...our separateness is (albeit a good one!!) completely an illusion.

QuantumPhysics also proves some interesting points to support this.
[u][/u]"Intention without discipline is useless."
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Re: Evolution or Creation

Postby jaysmetalart » Fri Feb 24, 2012 9:17 pm

Knut wrote:"She said it takes more faith to believe in the whole evolution concept, then to believe in God.....What do you think?....Jay"

Fascinating that in 2012... in the US... that there are people who still believe this.

"They take some very interesting animals and their designs, functions, etc. and show how they couldn't have evolved." soliver

Seriously?

"Squarepusher, the God that I believe in has given me a Book. In this Book, He said that He created the cosmos in six days. I believe it. Only He has no weaknesses." pinkrose


I like using logic, I won't throw verse at anyone...But I must say you acknowledge Jesus Christ, and you have not a choice in the matter. In fact everyone on this planet, except for a choice few acknowledge this...What happened in the history of man that today we keep a calender, What year was you born?... What year is it now? 2012..ad....Anno Domini....it is all based on this time of man and our Lord...Every time you write down the date, fill out a form, do your taxes, buy any product and get a receipt, pay your bills....there is a date based on the time of our Lord.....Jay

Fascinating. Not sure... but perhaps reading the history of who wrote the various books of the Bible, the whys and wherefores would clear some of that up...

No disrespect intended to anyone... and though I don't believe in any God or gods nor any supernatural entities or experiences... none of this goes to show that there isn't some deity somewhere doing something. Though I doubt it.... and a deity who cares about what human beings do, not a chance IMHO. This from a former Christian who taught at a Christian college. Word of advice... if you want to continue believing in 'God'... stay away from libraries and research into biblical history, comparative history, and the history of world religions...

That said... when people use their beliefs to the betterment of other people and to do 'good works'...(Matt: 25:36 etc.) I'll be right there with them. When they use their beliefs to increase hatred, fear, intolerance and to abuse the civil rights of other people... I'll expose them at every turn...

“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?” Epicurus

Peace


I like using logic, I won't throw verse at anyone...But I must say you acknowledge Jesus Christ, and you have not a choice in the matter. In fact everyone on this planet, except for a choice few acknowledge this...What happened in the history of man that today we keep a calender, What year was you born?... What year is it now? 2012..ad....Anno Domini....it is all based on this time of man and our Lord...Every time you write down the date, fill out a form, do your taxes, buy any product and get a receipt, pay your bills....there is a date based on the time of our Lord.....Jay
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Re: Evolution or Creation

Postby 25752b » Sat Feb 25, 2012 10:41 am

From what I can see historically there is alot of speculation as to exactly when Jesus was born. I do not think there is any speculation that his life has had the greatest impact on humanity and his lessons are perfect...when taken as intended. Many if not all religions have twisted the word to be used as they interpret it, and just look at the fights, the violence, and the injustice that humans engage in in the defense of their religions.
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Re: Evolution or Creation

Postby f1jim » Sat Feb 25, 2012 11:01 am

Of course, I find it ironic that this spirited debate takes place here between the believers and the non believers. Many of the non believers worked very hard to keep this forum out. I never understood that. Also, many believers invoke the "word of God," yet there is no agreed upon version of that word amongst them.
Some of us just like to battle!
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Re: Evolution or Creation

Postby 25752b » Sat Feb 25, 2012 9:08 pm

It's always such a hot topic, like politics. If you are IMO attached to your ideas it is very hard to be open-minded. I have always loved a good debate, because I don't have to be right. When you have to be RIGHT, and stoke your ego, the field of vision narrows.
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Re: Evolution or Creation

Postby AlwaysAgnes » Sun Feb 26, 2012 12:08 pm

25752b wrote:From what I can see historically there is alot of speculation as to exactly when Jesus was born. I do not think there is any speculation that his life has had the greatest impact on humanity and his lessons are perfect...when taken as intended. Many if not all religions have twisted the word to be used as they interpret it, and just look at the fights, the violence, and the injustice that humans engage in in the defense of their religions.



I get a kick out of "Jesus." Funny how the name evolved. Who created the letter J?


http://www.plim.org/JesusOrigin.htm

Evolution or creation, does it really matter? Will it change what we are? All we are is dust in the wind. Find the source of the wind and maybe you'll find God. Rumor has it he lives in Kansas. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tH2w6Oxx0kQ

:mrgreen:
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Re: Evolution or Creation

Postby BenFTW » Tue Mar 13, 2012 7:08 pm

25752b wrote:It's always such a hot topic, like politics. If you are IMO attached to your ideas it is very hard to be open-minded. I have always loved a good debate, because I don't have to be right. When you have to be RIGHT, and stoke your ego, the field of vision narrows.


I read a quote recently that said, "Merely having an open mind is nothing; the object of opening a mind, as of opening the mouth, is to shut it again on something solid."

If you don't have to be right, why debate? If you do not believe in what you are sharing why then should I even listen to you? You are not arguing truth you are arguing opinion. I am not interested in your opinion but in the truth. If you dont hold that your view is the truth and you dont have to be right then there is no foundation for you to hold to, let alone me listen to.

An opinion is subjective, I am looking for the truth, by definition is absolute. It's not that I have to be right, it is by definition that I am right. A truth and a lie, which is right? Well of course the truth is. You may argue neither is right, inwhich case I can say that your world view has no solid foundation. If you believe one thing to be true and another believes something else to be true, then you cant argue with him because in your world view truth is subjective.

If truth is subjective you have no reason to debate because according to such a view everyone is right. At that starting point, you have lost the right to debate.
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Re: Evolution or Creation

Postby AlwaysAgnes » Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:55 am

BenFTW wrote:
25752b wrote:It's always such a hot topic, like politics. If you are IMO attached to your ideas it is very hard to be open-minded. I have always loved a good debate, because I don't have to be right. When you have to be RIGHT, and stoke your ego, the field of vision narrows.


I read a quote recently that said, "Merely having an open mind is nothing; the object of opening a mind, as of opening the mouth, is to shut it again on something solid."

If you don't have to be right, why debate? If you do not believe in what you are sharing why then should I even listen to you? You are not arguing truth you are arguing opinion. I am not interested in your opinion but in the truth. If you dont hold that your view is the truth and you dont have to be right then there is no foundation for you to hold to, let alone me listen to.

An opinion is subjective, I am looking for the truth, by definition is absolute. It's not that I have to be right, it is by definition that I am right. A truth and a lie, which is right? Well of course the truth is. You may argue neither is right, inwhich case I can say that your world view has no solid foundation. If you believe one thing to be true and another believes something else to be true, then you cant argue with him because in your world view truth is subjective.

If truth is subjective you have no reason to debate because according to such a view everyone is right. At that starting point, you have lost the right to debate.


I had a similar pseudo conversation with my nephew on Facebook the other day. He posted something about matadors and bullfighting and how some people see it as murder, but he just sees it as an okay cultural variation because he has an open mind and can see it from their perspective. I told him to use his open mind to imagine himself in the bull's place and get back to me. Absolutes and moral relativism, where would we be without them? An effective debater has to be able to debate every side of any argument or issue and win, the ultimate "truth" of the argument or issue be damned. There's an absolute for ya. :unibrow:

Absolutes are true for all people, everywhere, at all times. That's the nature of absolutes. Telling someone s/he's lost the right to debate doesn't make it true. You and I don't have that power...unless rights are bestowed by man.

A couple of my favorite quotes:

“It pays to keep an open mind, but not so open your brains fall out.” Carl Sagan?

"A mind all logic is like a knife all blade. It makes the hand bleed that uses it." Rabindranath Tagore

Here's a fun one:
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/ ... rrier.html


Right is just another word for nothing left to do.



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