Discussion Board

f1jim and I were having some conversations this weekend at the ASW about slow adoption of whole-foods, low fat, plant-based diet in contrast to jumping in all the way. He mentioned that he has observed several contributors here at McDougall forums who toyed with the concepts for awhile, but it wasn't until they made the definitive jump that they really saw the changes and improvements they were looking for.

I'm eager to hear from everyone who'd like to share their experience and advice. Kathy Freston spoke to "leaning into it" at the ASW this weekend, and if you've read her book, you know that is her philosophy. At the same time, in my question to Doug Lisle at the ASW, I noted how easy it is for us to 'lean out'.

It would be great if we could have a controlled study to see which approach has the best long-term compliance and results in healthy, happy lives. I don't know how you'd control it, and maybe it's a mater of personalities anyway.

Please share your experiences and opinions. Is it best to jump in with both feet with diet and lifestyle changes, or 'lean in' with gradual changes? What is YOUR advice?

Thanks!

Lani

Jump in. I "leaned in" for decades (being vegan but still using oils, meat analogs, fake cheese, etc.) and that's how I got to be 90 lbs overweight (TWICE). When I went McDougall whole hog I lost the weight--then I "leaned out" just a little, and before I knew it I was fat again.

IMO trying to "sorta" do it is bound to result in "sorta" results. And that's not just in terms of weight loss (which you can see) but also in terms of health benefits (which you often cannot).

Jump in and do it right from the start is my advice!

Thanks for your quick response. Let me ask, as follow-up, how did you deal with 'misses' and off-track incidents? Was it easy to get back on track, and if so what were your strategies?

Lani

I say jump and jump far and quick. I see too many people stumbling along the way while they attempt to be compliant or just plain think that a halfway approach is better than none. I just think they are toiling with their health along the way. And I think to see the true benefit of this you just have to JUMP.

These replies are all enormously helpful. Keep 'em coming! Details! Anyone pro- "LSD"?

Lani

I think it depends upon the personality. My guess is that most obese people are "all or nothing" types like me. We need to jump in all the way. However, I think people with different levels of food addiction can make a gradual transition. I suspect more of these people would be closer to ideal weight. They either have better self-control or they are more in tune with their body's natural ability to stop when they are full.

If you are an "all or nothing" person like me, I think the most important part to maintaining success is proper planning. I need to have the right foods in my kitchen, the right recipes ready to go and the time to put it all together. I need to think ahead and make sure that I am prepared for tomorrow. The best part is that after a few months, this part does get a lot easier, but it should continually be a part of this program, especially if you are trying to lose weight.

Well, first time around I just got pissed b/c it seemed "unfair" to me that I couldn't have "just a little" vegan junk food (or use Pam or have margarine on my toast or even eat based on the regular McD plan instead of MWL). See my Star story for more on that! So I just said, "Oh well" and got fat.

This time around I just honestly try not to screw up. Do I sometimes? Yeah. And do I sometimes think it's "unfair" that I can't have the occasional avocado or nuts? Yup. But I just steel myself and go back to MWL with stern reminders that like it or not, I CANNOT veer away from this plan or I WILL be fat again. And I don't want that!

My sense is that you could take 10 different people and you will probably come up with 10 different responses or combinations on the continuum of which is "best" for each individual.

Though intuitively knowing that this WOE was healthier... I evolved over 10 years from organic, sustainable farming of livestock and agriculture to a vegan, starch centered diet sans added oils and fats.

Once I decided to adopt this WOE... I went whole hog save for the occasional lapse (eggs, chocolate malt) perhaps once q 2-3 weeks...

SWMBO has made a slower transition but is doing well. Being Type 1 diabetic poses different challenges for her...

Two months in I've lost 70 lbs and my wife has lost 15 lbs.

I think if you toy around with it, you can find yourself giving up easier, I think if you just commit to it for say 8 weeks, you will see results and that will give you momentum to stay on it, myself I do not make a festivity out of eating, so I believe that many people here have trouble with that aspect of it. If I get hungry I will heat up two potatoes and some corn, lightly season it, and It is done. No formal breakfast, lunch, or dinner. I no longer eat because it taste good(even though it does)or by desire of flavor. I eat because it is going to give me incredible endurance for running....I stay carbo loaded all the time, and I realize that other foods do not give me that....Jay

I have always been interested in plant-based eating ever since I can remember. I watched the Jack LaLane show as a kid and admired his fitness. Then in the 1980's I read Harvey Diamond's Fit for Life book. I thought it was a little complicated, but I loved Marilyn Diamond's cookbook and have used it for years. I have to say that even though I was interested in vegetarianism, I found it difficult to put into practice. My husband and children just would not eat that way. I was pretty much a stay-at-home mom and my husband had a career in the military and worked 12 hour days. I wasn't about to tell him to cook his own dinner. So I cooked meat for them. But I continued to read all I could about vegetarianism. I am a big Paul McCartney fan and he was a big influence on me. I got on the Veg-Source bulletin board about 8 years ago. There were a lot of McDougallers there. They suggested I get Dr. McDougall's MWL book, so I did but it seemed pretty strict (I mean no bread?). Then Dr. McDougall started this message board and I registered here along with several others from the Veg Source board. I liked it, but found MWL difficult to stick to, so I quit. In fact I quit 2 times and then returned to the McDougall board last year. I decided to go back and forth between MWL and the regular program and it worked. I am losing weight slowly, but still losing. So to answer your question, I think it's an individual choice how you do it. I don't think there is neccessarily a right or wrong way, but the more you get into this way of eating, the benefits will increase exponentially and the healthier you will be.

Sometimes it's more effective to do things "cold turnip" while other things taken gradually. Like instead of going from completely sad to plant based, on week one dropping the animals, week 3 dropping the dairy...instead of week one dropping only red meat and week 3 only dropping milk. Leaving the window open for a 'little bit' of something wouldn't work for me either.

I was on every diet known to mandkind....I tried McDougalling quite a few times in the late 80's and early 90's...finally in the mid 90's I jumped on board the McDougall train..I did the regular plan..and I was far from perfect..it took me almost 2 years to lose over 100lbs.....the past 3 months I eat mainly MWL...just good clean eating..I eat a ton of food, and have kept the weight off for over 15 years..I know what food's trigger me...and I just leave them alone now...so I guess my answer was long slow distance..it took awhile, but I finally got it righ

I wanted to add something else. One thing that has helped me tremendously are Dr. and Mrs. McDougall's cookbooks. I am just not the type to slap something together for dinner. I have always cooked a big dinner most nights. Recently there have been other cookbooks that have also been helpful, like Lindsay Nixon's Happy Herbivore and Julieanna Hevers's Idiot's Guide to Plant Based Eating as well as her new book, An Idiot's Guide to Gluten-Free Plant-based Cooking. The more recipes I find to replace my old SAD recipes, the easier it is to eat this way.

If a person starts reading here or reads one of Dr. McDougall's books, she may think that she is jumping in but will over time see that she has not (for example) omitted all of the oil or cut the sodium enough etc. So even if one wants to jump in right away, it seems that the learning curve is quite steep at first and one will need some time to follow all of the details of the program.

That is one reason I suggest that people start with the idea of having nothing on their plates or in their bowls. Then start adding only things that are on the program. For MWL, for example, if you steam a bowl of plain veggies for you entree and then eat a bowl of brown rice for dessert (cooked with no added fats or salt), you are 100% compliant. I like 100%!!!

I think jumping in all the way is the best way to do it. However, if that seems too overwhelming for someone, I would tell them this:I think the key is to learn which foods/recipies are compliant, how to prepare them, how good they can taste and how you aren't going hungry.

If you don't eat a fully compliant diet for at least a few days in a row, how will you know whether not you want to go farther? You could end up gaining weight if you eat too much of the bad stuff, but you could end up saying, "I tried a vegetarian diet. It didn't work for me."