Discussion Board

Hi Carroll, I'm back on the forum. Been gone for almost a year and gained back the 27 lbs I had lost. I would love a STRICTLY on the program thread. It is encouraging. I do Mary's Mini for as long as I can. Started again yesterday and already lost 2 1/2 lbs. I eat potato, diced tomatoes, string beans and oatmeat.
Hope this gets going!

Hi Carroll, I'm a strict McDougaller - you won't see any oil or cheese in any recipe I post .

I don't think we need a separate forum, it is too divisive. Instead I hope that when someone posts something that is not correct, that other's continue to point out the problem. I understand that it takes time to learn to dot the i's and cross the t's properly when following this diet.

I totally agree all recipes posted here should be mcdougall legal. I realize some may not be MWL legal but I think folks can figure that out.

I think Vegankit makes a good point about a separate forum being divisive.
What would the rest of the board become - an ever expanding range of different ideas on what to eat?
I think that the focus on Dr McD's actual plan across the whole board is ideal, with plenty of support for people irrespective of whether they adopt it gradually or all at once.

Having said that, I respect Carroll's view and agree that at times it does seem like only a small % of members are doing the 'pure' plan, because a lot of posts come from people who don't seem to be following the full plan.
Maybe I could help in my own small way by posting more often. This is the first board I've ever used and I'm naturally shy, so while I have tuned in most days for nearly 2 years, I usually don't say anything
I have found it an invaluable support and motivator - thank you all for your comments that have assisted me when you didn't even know you were doing so.

i am a very strict MWL gluten-free follower.i love the lifestyle and the simplicity of the diet:lots of vegetables,salads,2 fruits,brown rice,puffed rice,brown rice cakes ,squashes. i am at my goal weight and am an avid runner.i have absolutely no cravings for non-MWL foods and i do not feel the urge to deviate.my family think my way of eating is dull but i LOVE my foods and meals-they make me feel great!
to each his own i guess......
thanks for starting this topic.

You can't make everyone happy. Someone will undoubtedly feel put upon by a strict McDougaller forum. I eat 100% McDougall and know a handful of others that do so also. We all feel like we are being attacked when we give an answer that is by the book. We sometimes do it anyway as it's usually the right answer given the situation. Many are threatened when you mention cutting this or that out of their diet. It's nice to attend the Advanced Study weekends and you get a stronger sense of unity there. Many show up here posting and assume a leadership role with little to back it up. But I also agree having a strict McDougall forum tends to make it seem almost odd. In many ways I guess it is. Those of us that have chosen to make it a lifestyle tend to never regret the decision. Most all of the Star McDougallers seem to be pretty hard core.
f1jim

I for one would like to extend my sincerest thanks and appreciation for those "hard-liners" who aren't afraid to tell it like it is when it comes to 100% compliance, because that is what I need. I am on this website and WOE because I mean business, and my health and weight problems demand no less. If that makes me, or you, odd, then so be it.

It is thanks to ppl like SactoBob and f1jim and others--you know who you are, even if I can't recall your names right now (I think including some of the other Stars)--that I understand the path I need to be on. I am doing my utmost to comply with 100% MWL. I have everything to gain and nothing to lose by doing so. Ok.... considering that I am here to lose wt, that last statement sounds kind of weird --but you know what I mean!

This is not to say that some of the softer voices have not been immensely helpful as well. Nevertheless it is to the posts of the "strict" camp that I turn again and again as most valuable. Thanks to everyone who has given with such incredible generosity of their time, thought and experience to this board to help ppl like me avoid the pitfalls that can overwhelm the best intentions.

As for the question of whether there should be a separate subforum for the strict McD'ers, I defer to the wisdom of longterm members, with the caveat that the "strict" advice is invaluable and IMO should be lauded, hardly decried.

Hard core? By the book? Thank goodness, and thanks again.

Carroll, maybe what you need to do, when you post and have feelings like you're expressing is ask people to give you a quick kick in the behind to shift you back into 100% compliance?

I had read Campbell's The China Study and Esselstyne's Prevent and Reverse Heart Disease first before I discovered McDougall so I already understood that I needed to be completely compliant. But I think most people need either subtle nudges or kicks in the behind sometimes to get to where I am. I also had the not so pleasant experience of McDougall's revenge on my first feast day when I had a few fried appetizers as a reminder that even I needed to be careful even on feast days not to stray too far from 100%. I would think that a couple of those powdered pastries could provoke digestive troubles at the very least?

This sounded OK in my head so I'm going to try it out loud here.

I've read recently that some of our own boarders here have taken Dr. Campbell's course in nutrition. I don't know what they are planning on doing with their knowledge once they are done, but maybe they would hang up a shingle and be counselors to those of us who need full frontal honesty when it comes to what we are eating?

There is always the option of Jeff Novick's counseling. Didn't SactoBob hire his services for a time? I have heard that Jeff is good at serious reality when it comes to food.

This would all cost some money but if a person were really serious it's definitely an option.

Then there is just keeping a journal here in the Journal section and being brutally honest. I've found it enormously helpful and sometimes I get free advice from one of the Stars. For free.

Hmmmmm, a very interesting discussion.

I'd be interested in hearing if any McDougallers came here initially to begin any of Dr. McDougall's programs and knew they were coming here planning to NOT be strict or serious about following the program?????????

I've assumed (maybe incorrectly) that those who are not 100% compliant "mean to be" compliant (like me), but either from not yet understanding all the details of the program, or what foods are approved on which program, or how to read labels, etc.; or from conscious choice for one reason or another, (or To Eat one food or another ), or from giving in to temptation , or lack of planning, or not wanting to cook that day, etc., (whatever) just don't follow the principles at one time or another.

...but, I've thought for most all of us McDougallers, we have a desire to retain or restore our health and appearance, and would LOVE to be strict, 100% compliant McDougallers, if only we COULD?
Is that way off base?

I don't think so.

I also wonder if part of the problem is what 'strict' mcdougalling is. I know sometimes a person will get called down for eating something on the approved list, but it's prepared. To me that's being on plan. I know others eat more whole and that's fine. That should be the main part of your food. But what is strict? Being on plan, or maybe the heart healthy way of only whole foods.

Maybe I'm way off base. But Mrs. D - no I didn't come on to not be strict. That's why when I'm not I don't share because I don't want to give anyone the wrong impression.

I wouldn't assume everyone who comes here wants to be strict but I do think posters do want to eat better than they were eating.

I believe the vast majority of people coming to the forums are trying to accomplish certain goals. They would include reversal of chronic disease, substantial weight loss, or a health boost of some sort, all based around this particular diet and lifestyle. So then, the task is how best to accomplish that. Some subscribe to a slower, methodical push toward 100% compliance. Certainly, no one including Dr. McDougall would deny that cutting out a Coke a day would be working positively toward that goal. But the reality is unless people see positive changes relatively quickly, there is little incentive to keep moving forward after a certain point. In many cases the rewards are simply not fast/great enough to maintain a enough motivational momentum to justify the inconvenience and social deprivation that can accompany the adoption of much of this plan. This is why, even given written statements about any changes being helpful, the way Dr. McDougall and his staff approach the diet is to apply a full on adoption after serious planning in anticipation of a target date. I have spent enough time with them to know what their experience and recommendations are when adopting the plan. They will not, of course, discourage anyone making even small changes, but there is a method to the madness. The forum is replete with many that have enjoyed great success. The theme you may find that runs through most all of them is a point at which they seriously adopted the program utilizing most all of Dr. McDougalls recommendations at which point great success followed. That common point makes for a very strong bond among those that have tried it this way. We all tend to see the plan through a similar viewpoint. Almost none of us see a slow progressive path to compliance as being anything but frustrating and fraught with obstacles that need not occur. Shortening any transition nearly always works best. While I encourage anyone to begin the journey, I too have learned what helps and what hinders. So much of what I see in the journals is counterproductive and I have learned that many will never get to their stated goals before getting frustrated and tired of the struggle. It's sad to see that and when people just disappear I know what has happened. It's a blessing when they come back with a different attitude and a renewed sense of purpose. This program is NOT easy. It is simple. Making it otherwise is not helpful. Keep it simple and it really will change your life.
f1jim

Is there any reason that those who wish to, could not use this thread for their discussion on this topic? --for their questions, their requests for support, their insights, problems, etc.?

This thread has the topic--"Strict McDougallers' Section" already clearly stated, and the previous posts in the thread clarify what is being sought. This seems like a good place to gather together and share, for those wishing to be "strict". The length of threads is not limited as far as I know.

--or someone could open a Personal Journal, emphasizing a similar topic, inviiting interested others to join in with his/her "strict" struggles/goals, etc.

I hope you find a satisfactory solution.