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ALA, EPA and DHA

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HealthFreak



Joined: 17 Jun 2008
Posts: 535
Location: Tacoma, WA


Post ALA, EPA and DHA
Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 6:31 am 
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Jeff,

Is this a true statement? It was made by William Harris of the Stanford School of Medicine at the University of South Dakota. It’s from an article in the November issue of Nutrition Action Healthletter. It’s from an article about fish oil and heart disease.

“We need to eliminate ALA as a surrogate omega-3, our bodies convert very little ALA to EPA and none to DHA. Why? The body can’t take the first step, which is to change ALA to an intermediate fat called stearidonic acid (SDA).”

I also read a similar statement in the current issue of the Economist on page 91. The article is called Food, glorious food-The way health claims about food are regulated is changing.

The Nutrition Policy Unit at London Metropolitan University says that claiming health benefits from products with the short chain omega 3s (ALA) is deceptive because proven health benefits only come from products with the long chain omega 3s (EPA and DHA). “Products that contain short-chain omega 3s, such as alpha-linolenic acid from plant oils like flax-seed oil, have not been linked with the strong health benefits shown by fish oils.”


 
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Laurav



Joined: 09 Oct 2009
Posts: 49


Post Re: ALA, EPA and DHA
Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 7:31 am 
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There's an EPA/DHA supplement made from algae available from http://water4.net. It has 25 mg EPA and 175 mg DHA per capsule.
It's the only algae supplement I know of that has EPA as well as DHA.
Laura


 
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geoffreylevens



Joined: 02 Apr 2008
Posts: 1273


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Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 10:23 am 
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If I remember correctly ALA is a precursor to EPA and DHA. Many convert just fine and some do not. The ones who don't are used by the fish oil purveyors as advertising leverage to say that flax is no good. From what I have seen, it is not a lot of people who do not convert well. The big problem w/ ALA is that the conversion chain branches before the end products (EPA/DHA) and ALA can go other or to arachidonic (AA) acid which is inflammatory. We need a small amount of AA but not a lot. I think the determining factors on which branch the ALA takes include liver function and antioxidant status of the person. That means, someone eating SAD could easily produce a lot of AA from ALA. Someone on a plant based, whole foods, healthy diet would be much less likely to have a problem.

 
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oceanfrontcabin



Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 2


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Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 12:12 pm 
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I've been trying to figure this out too. There are no plant sources of DHA. Yet the brain needs mostly DHA and some EPA (maybe as a catalyst) which is found in fish. Infants can convert ALA (flax/leafy greens/walnuts) to DHA and EPA, but apparantly human adults cannot convert enough ALA to DHA and EPA.

So, what's a human adult vegan to do? Supplement with DHA and EPA?


 
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JeffN



Joined: 08 Jan 2008
Posts: 2520


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Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 12:21 pm 
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On ALA, LA, EPA and DHA,


http://drmcdougall.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=11105

http://www.drmcdougall.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6735

http://www.drmcdougall.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=11112

http://www.drmcdougall.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6293

http://www.drmcdougall.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=12720

http://www.drmcdougall.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=8461

http://www.drmcdougall.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6183

In Health
Jeff
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http://www.JeffNovick.com

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geoffreylevens



Joined: 02 Apr 2008
Posts: 1273


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Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 12:23 pm 
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oceanfrontcabin wrote:
\...but apparantly human adults cannot convert enough ALA to DHA and EPA.


But apparently they CAN! Some few have trouble and will become symptomatic unless they supplement directly w/ the end products but I think the very big majority are fine w/ ALA only which means either no need to supplement at all or just some flax.

And there is a plant source DHA from sea veg (algae) I think. This is where is actually comes from! The fish eat the algae and then humans extract the oil from the fish. Udo's (Flora) sells the veg source.

www.florahealth.com/flora/home/USA/Products/R67998.htm


 
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HealthFreak



Joined: 17 Jun 2008
Posts: 535
Location: Tacoma, WA


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Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 1:55 pm 
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Thanks Jeff. Those links cleared up a lot of confusion for me on this topic.

 
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Langeranger



Joined: 09 Aug 2009
Posts: 29


Post Plant-sourced DHA/EPA
Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 7:38 pm 
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Oceanfrontcabin wrote, "There are no plant sources of DHA." Not so. I've been ordering V-Pure from overseas for some time now. Says right on the container Vegetarian EPA-DHA. All from Algae. Google V-pure. It's pricey but available. Don't use the stuff myself, but my wife still does.

 
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f1jim



Joined: 17 Feb 2008
Posts: 1875
Location: Pacifica, CA


Post From what I understand about plant sources...
Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 10:21 pm 
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The "plant source" referred to is residue from animal sources(getting the visual picture?) left behind on the sea plants. So technically it's still animal but the most recent literature shows this conversion is really not a problem.
f1jim
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While adopting this diet and lifestyle program I have reversed my heart disease, high cholesterol, hypertension, and lost 54 lbs. You can follow my story at http://www.drmcdougall.com/star.html Scroll to James Brown


 
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geoffreylevens



Joined: 02 Apr 2008
Posts: 1273


Post Re: From what I understand about plant sources...
Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 9:07 pm 
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f1jim wrote:
The "plant source" referred to is residue from animal sources(getting the visual picture?) left behind on the sea plants. So technically it's still animal but the most recent literature shows this conversion is really not a problem.
f1jim


Huh? Got reference? I am pretty sure that plant source DHA is extracted directly from sea algae.


 
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geoffreylevens



Joined: 02 Apr 2008
Posts: 1273


Post Re: From what I understand about plant sources...
Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 9:11 pm 
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DOH!

Last edited by geoffreylevens on Mon Nov 09, 2009 7:04 am; edited 1 time in total


 
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geoffreylevens



Joined: 02 Apr 2008
Posts: 1273


Post Re: From what I understand about plant sources...
Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 9:16 pm 
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Akkk

Last edited by geoffreylevens on Mon Nov 09, 2009 7:03 am; edited 1 time in total


 
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f1jim



Joined: 17 Feb 2008
Posts: 1875
Location: Pacifica, CA


Post I may have to backtrack.
Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 10:10 pm 
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I heard this discussed at one of the study weekends at Dr. McDougalls facility in Santa Rosa but I can't find a source so for now scratch my comment. It may just be poor blood flow to my brain. What still holds true is we have no problem making the conversion to DHA from sources such as flax seed. The most recent studies lay that controversy to rest.
f1jim
_________________
While adopting this diet and lifestyle program I have reversed my heart disease, high cholesterol, hypertension, and lost 54 lbs. You can follow my story at http://www.drmcdougall.com/star.html Scroll to James Brown


 
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geoffreylevens



Joined: 02 Apr 2008
Posts: 1273


Post Re: From what I understand about plant sources...
Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 5:48 am 
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oops

 
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f1jim



Joined: 17 Feb 2008
Posts: 1875
Location: Pacifica, CA


Post Ah Hah!
Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 7:31 pm 
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I think I figured out who Batman is!
f1jim
_________________
While adopting this diet and lifestyle program I have reversed my heart disease, high cholesterol, hypertension, and lost 54 lbs. You can follow my story at http://www.drmcdougall.com/star.html Scroll to James Brown


 
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