High cholesterol by heredity

[dp135]

I hear your frustration, dp135. I am not an expert on cholesterol, but this phrase in your story stands out:

recently started cutting down on oils even more than before

I think it is safe to say you need to cut out ALL free oils. Can you list some typical days' eating? and maybe someone else with more expertise in this topic will be along to advise you. Don't give up yet! If no reply I would start a new thread asking for help. Good luck--

Thanks. I can see how that looked but that is not what I meant.
I do not use free oils as an add-on. Stopped that long ago. What I meant was I have even edited out oils in foods more carefully - to an extreme- as ingredients in the past few months vs. the prior months. I got stricter since Dec 2010 and my numbers shot up. . I long ago stopped any added oils such as salad dressings. It was looking for the hidden oils that I embarked on to try to lower the 218 and ended up with a TC and LDL that are almost as bad as when I was eating a terrible diet with lots of low nutrient foods.
I bake without any oils. I eat oatmeal, grains like brown rice, beans, sweet potato/white potato, fruits, veggies, almond milk, my own tomato sauces. I do not use prepared salad dressings, just some balsamic. If I am that sensitive to oil in any food, even in such small amounts, I will probably need to take some medication as I am not sure this is sustainable for me. Or do as Dr.McDougall says and not take any as he says he never puts healthy women on them. My worry is at what point to I become "unhealthy" if I ignore this issue. That is what I am dealing with emotionally right now.

That I am just not ever going to be one of those people who respond the way I see everyone else in their success stories to high cholesterol. I enjoy eating like this and will never go back to how things were but I am so disappointed that it did not bring me the health benefits with regard to my cholesterol that I had hoped for.

I am surrounded by family/friends who eat a miserable diet who naturally have low cholesterol and it just has me very down.
I realize there are so many people who are sick and who probably look at this and think oh for goodness sakes, grow up and take the pill and be glad you do not have any serious diseases
but I really thought I was moving in the right direction and now it's just all jumbled up. I also know that there is more to health than cholesterol but still I am just in a bad place.

It shouldn't be this hard.

My plan is to revamp my diet in any area I think I can and redo Blood work in April or May.

This has just really taken the wind out of my sails

[dp135]

I would agree with afreespirit. Her quote of your comment hit me the same way. Some people can get away with the added oils, others can't. I can't. You may be one of us. I'd give that a try for 30 days and see what the effect is.
f1jim

Thank you & afreespirit again for your thoughts and encouragement.
I am going to work on all of this. I guess I will have to bask in the glory of my size 6 jeans and my HDL of 82 and get on with my life ;=)

[f1jim]

The other main point is we all get better at this the more we do it. I bet if you start tracking your progress you will see improvements as you go along. Nutrition isn't like a light switch, either off or on. It's a process we evolve into and like anything else, practice makes perfect. Stick with it, making progress, however seemingly small, and then use time to evaluate your progress. If you are like most of us, you will look back over the last 6 months or a year and see how you have made changes. They will work in your favor. As Jeff Novick says "time and adherence." The two together are very synergistic and will get you where you to be. It's much too early to get depressed or disappointed. You are still so new at all this and there is so much to be discovered.
As a side note are you covering your bases on the cholesterol removal side? There are standbys that are known for helping like oats, barley, etc. Make sure you are giving your body the tools to remove the cholesterol.
f1jim

[dp135]

The other main point is we all get better at this the more we do it. I bet if you start tracking your progress you will see improvements as you go along. Nutrition isn't like a light switch, either off or on. It's a process we evolve into and like anything else, practice makes perfect. Stick with it, making progress, however seemingly small, and then use time to evaluate your progress. If you are like most of us, you will look back over the last 6 months or a year and see how you have made changes. They will work in your favor. As Jeff Novick says "time and adherence." The two together are very synergistic and will get you where you to be. It's much too early to get depressed or disappointed. You are still so new at all this and there is so much to be discovered.
As a side note are you covering your bases on the cholesterol removal side? There are standbys that are known for helping like oats, barley, etc. Make sure you are giving your body the tools to remove the cholesterol.
f1jim

Thanks again. Yes, I do use oats and high fiber foods. In the past few months I had added in more wheat and healthy starches but I find myself itchy etc and with joint pain. I had a celiac panel done which thankfully was negative but in general I have not been feeling my best as compared to last year. So I am going to go back to my oatmeal more frequently as I was avoiding that the past few weeks
in case I was Gluten sensitive and the oats were x-contaminated etc.
I'm going to sit down and make some specific menus to follow and get out the cookbooks and see where I can tweak.

I watched your video. Did you do the MWL? Your numbers changed so amazingly in 11 weeks.

[f1jim]

I did not do MWL, just the regular plan, but I was relentless about the details. I drove my wife crazy reading labels, refusing to eat ANYTHING that wasn't following McDougall/Esselstyn guidelines. For me the stubborn issue was BP. Some people make the changes and their BP drops dramatically. I had to lose 60lbs before I saw my BP drop significantly. Not fair, but that's the way the cookie crumbles! We are all different about things like that. For some the weight falls off, others have to be so careful about the last detail to see weight loss, For others it's triglycerides, or blood sugar. The one thing I do see a lot is if you stay persistent, look at all the details, and give it time, it all seems to fall into place. So many times I see people struggle and get frustrated when everything doesn't magically fall into place in the first 30 or 60 days. Sadly, many give up before time brings them the changes they were looking for. Those that hold out and stay patient get their rewards. You just have to hang in their.
f1jim

[ETeSelle]

I did not do MWL, just the regular plan, but I was relentless about the details. I drove my wife crazy reading labels, refusing to eat ANYTHING that wasn't following McDougall/Esselstyn guidelines. For me the stubborn issue was BP. Some people make the changes and their BP drops dramatically. I had to lose 60lbs before I saw my BP drop significantly. Not fair, but that's the way the cookie crumbles!

Yes. dp135, it may help you to read my BP thread, here:

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=20551

Read the whole thing. At one point I say:

But I know what you're saying. I emailed Dr. McD again. I referred him to this thread and he reiterated what's on the page about how he treats hypertension. I emailed back and whined, "I don’t understand how it can be the same NOW, when I’m thin, limiting caffeine, and watching sodium to an absurd degree as it was in May when I weighed 70 lbs more and wasn’t worrying at ALL about sodium or caffeine. Am I just cursed?"

And he said: "Maybe cursed to worry, but not to be unhealthy."

Felt a little better then. You gotta love him!

You can't just live by the numbers. There is NO DOUBT that you are healthier now than you were when you were fat. Keep on keeping on, as Jim says, and more than likely your numbers will come down--just more slowly than someone else's. I totally get your frustration--as you can see in the thread above I felt that, too. I.e., "I'm doing everything RIGHT!! Why is my BP still high??? WAAAAAAH!!! " I can choose to worry about something I can't change (other than by doing as much as possible of what I AM doing), or I can chill and enjoy life.

Are you anywhere near CA? It might be worth it to attend one of the Advanced Study Weekends and fit in a consult w/ Dr. McD in person. He can't give too much info over the internet for obvious reasons, but if you become a patient of his you will get the benefit of what he knows and he may well have other suggestions. He will almost certainly reassure you.

[dp135]

I have a question, you mention doing a combo of McD, Furhman and Essy. Are you consuming nuts as advocated by Furhman? Just skimming through the posts and responses, I see everyone talking about added oils and such, but no mention about Furhman and nuts.
What about any prepackaged/refined flour products? Like I said, I just skimmed through and didnt see mention of these

Just wondering.

I was consuming nuts and not scrutinizing things like oil in humus etc for much of the year that I did Fuhrman's plan and my lipids went lower and I lost all my weight. I decided to take nuts to a minimum and chose walnuts when I did and get super strict with oils and add starches after reading Esselstyn in the Fall and this subsequent blood work went higher. So, far less nuts and /or oils and the numbers went up.

I did make fat free muffins per Essy's book and also a cornbread that is totally oil free. No processed packaged mixes. I presumed this was acceptable as it's in Essy's books and my weight is ok now.
If having a muffin made with WW flour drives my TC back to 260, that is problematic.

I'm not trying to pit one plan against the other, I am trying to take the best from all but it is not working right now.

I realize that my weight and cholesterol do not define me, however, I worry about having cardiac problems because I just totally blow things off.

Anyway, time to start over and become a serious nitpicker and see what happens. If it had stayed at 218, I could have handled that but to go up to almost pre change numbers a year ago just freaked me out.

[ETeSelle]

Well, if I were you I would commit to McDougall's MWL plan for 6 mos. Be super-strict. Re-do labs after 6 mos.

[Melinda]

Also could be a possibility of lab error.

[dp135]

Thanks again to all.
@Melinda yes, I thought of a lab error but am going to just really get intense with this and exercise more and see what happens and repeat it. I spent today thinking about how I felt so sad and like such a failure in my head and then just was like snap out of it! You are a totally different person and so much better off on so many levels and should be thankful for such supportive responses. And now I am. It just took me to work through it. Thanks for your understanding. I am in this for the long haul. So I just have to figure it out.
I am determined to keep a diary and really watch everything I am doing to see what is wrong, if anything on my end, because something must be amiss to plop me back to square one.
I read your BP thread ETeSelle. Very exciting!

Another question: Stress. Is there a correlation between stress and cholesterol? I have an elderly parent living with me and I KNOW I am very stressed out as she is getting sicker. That and coffee are the 2 things I can think of as to what I have not changed.

[dp135]

I don't have an answer as to stress, but as for a food diary, for more help seeing what might be contributing to the higher cholesterol numbers, making and posting in the journal section might help others give you an idea what could be contributing to it. Just a thought.

Thank you. I will take a look at that forum as well.
Oh and I live on LI, NY and going to CA. is out of the question
at this time.

I have Jeff's DVDs and a DVD by John and Mary as well as a bunch of books and will use the tools I have. I had spoken to Jeff in email and he also suggested MWL. I thought I was "close enough" but apparently not so I need to look back at that plan yet again.

[afreespirit]

The CRON-o-meter is an excellent tool for tracking your nutritional intake (see below threads). Be sure to also read the books by Dr. McDougall and Dr. Esselstyn which are specific to heart health, if you haven't already.

http://drmcdougall.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6796
http://drmcdougall.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7784
viewtopic.php?t=6804

[dollmaker]

oh been on and off this for about 20yrs.. LOL.. but this time it's for good.. I have no choice now thankfully!
thanks for the encouragement

[dp135]

The CRON-o-meter is an excellent tool for tracking your nutritional intake (see below threads). Be sure to also read the books by Dr. McDougall and Dr. Esselstyn which are specific to heart health, if you haven't already.

http://drmcdougall.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6796
http://drmcdougall.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7784
viewtopic.php?t=6804

I returned to a more Fuhrman type diet about a month ago as I find that added starches just did not agree with me personally. It made me crave food all the time and I even gained a couple of lbs which since dropped off. I found out I am not celiac thank goodness but I just do better with less starch.
I'm not sure how my numbers will bear it all out but they were ok last year and we shall see.

I find that all the information from all the doctors and from Jeff's DVDs is invaluable and thank you all once again for your help and support.

[sweetfruitlover]

Hi Dorothy,

I'm new on the forum, but I wanted to write because I too have cholesterol issues. When I was about 40, I checked and TC was 300 - yikes! My doctor wanted to put me on lipator of course, but I told her that I wanted to experiment with diet and see what happened. She really discouraged me. I remember she said "You could be a vegan marathon runner and it wouldn't make any difference. This is genetic." I told her that with all due respect, she hadn't checked my DNA and I was going to see what a change in diet could do.

I adopted a lower fat plant-centered diet, inspired by reading Dr. McD, Furhman and others. When I checked again (after just a month or two), TC was down to 174, and HDL, LDL and TG were all moving in a healthy direction. Yay!

But then I adopted a really low fat raw vegan diet where I ate most of my calories from fruit, and ate 6-8% fat. I lost lots of weight eating this way. After two years of this I checked and my TC was up to 250! I couldn't believe it. Apparently I do not process fructose that well.

So the part I wanted to communicate to you is that within the world of low fat, plant-centered eating, there is a wide range of options and they may have quite different effects on your cholesterol. Keep experimenting and seeing what combination of vegetables, starches, fruits and added fats works best for you. Good luck!