Tired feeling almost always

[Sunflwrgirl]

Hello everyone, first I would like to say I am really loving this way of life. Love the foods and and the fact that I dont feel like I need to eat any animal products to be "healthy".

This being said, though I do not want any animal products still I am confused by my lethargic feelings. I most always feel so tired and like I need a nap. For exercise I am spinning 3 times a week for an hour class, I walk a canyon of about 5 miles maybe once or twice a week and at random maybe something else that is not to strenuous but active.

For my food I am holding very tightly to the MWL way of eating. I dont eat but maybe 1 to 2 fruits a day at most and it is most often in th eform of bananas, raisins, apples and recently a lil bit of dates (2 in a milk shake made with bananas).

I have been solid on this woe for 6 months now and I do want to continue, but I dont understand why I feel so tired all the time.

As for sleep, I am going to bed around 8:30 nightly and waking up at 6:30 am. I take a nap everyday or else I will want to go to bed at 7:00 instead.

In 2012 I started to eat Gluten Free vegetarian for a few months. Started to notice I was eating allot of nut butters which was causing me to gain weight of course. Then I decided to do a master cleanse and lasted for 10 days with amazing results. I then followed completely over to 80/10/10 and stayed clean for over a month. I was feeling so amazing with so much energy, glowing skin, giggly and just over all thought I could conquer the world. I messed up and did not have no food which caused me to eat poorly one meal while on vacation visiting our kids. This then of course trigered all my bad desires for everything to come out. Including eating animal products again. I fought for a year trying to get back to being clean 80/10/10 and just could not get there. Which then I found this way of life and have now been here for 6 months... I hope this helps to explain a bit and hopefully someone can give me some pointers or even hope that if I just stick to this woe then it will all be ok. The only thing I can think of is that I am going through detox and I need to just be patient..

[baardmk]

It seems you're doing a lot of the right things. Well done and keep choosing health. :-)

It's strange that lethargy should become an issue. Difficult to propose any probable solution given your good food plan. But maybe you can still post a two day's worth of your typical chow.

Do you know your lipid numbers and other similar numbers?

People often will suggest eating more for having more energy. But sometimes eating less could also be an answer, I think. Personally if I'm only moderately hungry and don't want to relax, keeping my energy level after a workout for example, I'll eat salads and gnaw down raw vegetables. But I have to get the bulk of my calories from starch, so salads are never my main meals. But maybe you could try having only 2 meals a day with your main calorie loads of starches.

I think the idea of detox isn't very well founded. Maybe check out if Jeff Novick has written anything about it in his forum.

and I need to just be patient..

Yeah, I agree with the virtue and value of that.

[eXtremE]

The constant lethargy must be a bitch Sunflwrgirl even with all that sleep. I have the exact opposite problem, but I have anxiety really bad too. I feel wired 24/7 and can seldom sleep more than 4-5 hours and usually wake up each morning un-refreshed but but do have energy, except it isn't positive feel good energy but nervous energy.

You are active by exercising so no problem there.

Did you have this tired feeling bf you began this WOE?

[apri-le-ali]

I think you should use the Cron-O-Meter to check if you eat enough calories and nutrients.
I frequently have the same problem (always had it) and when I manage to eat more I feel better.
I think for years I didn't eat enough, even though I ate until full and often rich junk food. The same little stomach is now easily full with no much food, on this plan.
When I turned vegan my evergy somehow improved, but it wasn't until I checked my diet on the cron-o-meter that I realized I wasn't gettin enough calories (about 300-500 calories less than needed to mantain my weight!).
Keep eating starches, eat more veggies, no fats, and drink enough water! Stay also a bit in the sun when you can.
Hope this helps

[MINNIE]

First, please don't mistake me for someone who KNOWS anything about this:). However, I have some suggestions.

I wonder if you have seen any of Dr. McDougall's observations about sleep, depression and related problems. If you search the McDougall Newsletter archives, you can can find some information, such as the short article in this newsletter:

http://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2005nl/ ... 0sleep.htm

The basic idea is that too much sleep can make us more tired. It can also contribute to depression. I have found this to be true for myself. I was always an insomniac before starting the way of eating. I felt that I should have eight hours (or more) of uninterrupted sleep every night. I was frustrated because I was never able to achieve this, unless I resorted to harmful drugs. But now I sleep soundly and feel energetic, even though I sleep about 5 , or sometimes less, hours per night. I would never have believed this was right until I tried it. I also avoid any caffeine, which helps too.

It sounds like you are getting a lot of sleep time, but not getting actual benefits from your sleep. Maybe trying to sleep only at night, for a shorter period, would be worth trying.

Regarding food as a possible factor, this is again my own experience. When I eat enough starches, I am fine. When the proportion of fruits and vegetables is too much, I tire more easily. This is also true when I eat whole grain pasta or baked goods, compared to eating the cooked whole grains. So, you may want to look at the proportions of these foods, if you do eat them. In Dr. Neal Barnard's video on preventing and reversing diabetes, he make a comment about eating bread before bedtime if one is having trouble falling asleep. I have tried it and it seems to have that effect on me.

One more possibility could be a non-food issue, such as the air quality where you live, allergies to something in the environment such as pollen, or reactions to medications, if you are taking any.

I hope you find an answer soon.

[nayasmom]

I concur with Minnie. The choice of fruits is important - raisins and dates are dried and therefore concentrated in sugar and so easy to overeat on. A nap in the daytime plus 10 hours of sleep at night is excessive. It could be that vicious cycle between fruit and tiredness.
An added note from me, too; someone else on this board mentioned that drinking decaf tea was making her tireder and when she stopped drinking decaf tea, the tiredness disappeared. I tried this, since I enjoy tea in the evening and my assortment includes decaf teas, and it's true. Decaf tea can make you tired. To me this shows that decaf and herbal teas are not equal.
Robyn

[Sunflwrgirl]

Baardmk - I dont know my lipids lately nor do I know any of my clood work, but I do agree that it is probably time I go and check them. Normally when I go they are always saying very kind words that I have a very good blood workup, so I suppose this has caused me to lack on going since I believe I am eating so good so I should be doing great still

Extreme- Wish I had your energy instead. Though I am sure I would be frustrated with not being able to sleep. I wonder though if maybe you might want to work out more? Not sure if you are at this time or not, but I am more tired the days that I do workout then the days I don't..

Apri-le-ali - I do feel like I eat allot. If I am hungry I will eat, even if it something like hummus with carrots, salad, or some veggie soup that has rice, beans or potatoes in it.. Only thing is that I don't like to eat till I hurt if I can help it...

Minnie - My husband is retiring military of 27 years. Though I am a person who thrives on change, my husband does not. All I can do is support him and help him through and what I really want is to jump in and help to make things happen so that he can not feel so stressed. Which in turn of course is very stressful for me to just watch and feel like a nag sometimes. I have no doubt that I depression is tapping at my door, which is why I strive to stay focused on my eating and try to do my spin classes as well as walking every day. I know me and once I get depressed it is a very hard climb to get away from. Might I add that as healthy as I am trying to be my husband is completely sabotaging himself with fried chicken and or steaks daily with no other additions than these meats. Well, I take that back when he does the pick 3 bucket at Walmart he will add the fried potato wedges and fried mozzarella stick all to be eaten in one day. Anyways, this is not a good path for me to discuss as it clearly bothers me...

Also feel like my recipes mostly are coming from the MWL list here on the forum. I try very hard to eat only what is allowed and if its not mentioned then I dont stress it. Only thing I was doing for a bit was eating the Ezekiel bread toasted and with a dab of jelly nearly nightly. Which I did manage to stop this about a month ago. Was also eating homemade chocolate chip cookies from the MWL list here as well as making the chocolate chip mousse made with tofu and maple syrup. Did stop this as well about a month ago as I was hoping to do so might speed up my weight loss which has been since I started maintaining a 5 pounds a month. This is good in my eyes, but of course who would love if they could lose more per month, right lol

I dont add any oil, nuts or seeds to my meals. Have been out to eat maybe 3 times out this past 6 months and that is the only times I can think of that would had some oil in the foods, since we all know there are oils in restaurant foods even when we think there would be no need for it... I dont have any sugar since I stopped the chocolate chip cookies except I do use maple syrup rarely and have molasses in the African stew recipe on the MWL list. Recently added honey to my diet but only because I was craving it so much that I finally caved. This bothers me since now I can not say vegan no more, but I think I will be ok. I dont feel like honey is such a big deal no more since I gave myself a lil and now its like it dont matter to me... Was also eating Homemade spaghetti sauce form the forum using the sauce recipe over whole wheat spaghetti, but that is only once a week at most and usually only once every two weeks..

Allergies are a possibility as I was diagnosed with them a couple years ago. Though after I did the master cleanse and followed with the 80/10/10 they seem to have stopped. So had not taken them for a long time. Then when I switched to this woe I noticed right away that I started to have more mucus build up, but I have refused to take any pills since I dont want to eat drugs I want to eat food and be healthy Maybe I should try an allergy pill for a few days and see if it clears things up huh...

Nayasmom - The raisins I use are a small box in my plain oatmeal with cinnamon every morning and the dates are organic farm raised that are shipped to me wet. They are sooo delicious, but I do limit them to only a couple in a month. I might use them to make a 2 banana shake with 2 dates, cinnamon, vanilla and water that I usually only have once a month at most..

Am not drinking any coffee or even teas. Have not had any for a long time and really no cravings for them. I think that coffee to me is best with all the extras like caramel and such so that is a definite no now. The tea, just have not craved so I figure why bother.

At any rate, with all this said.. I did allot more researching yesterday after my posting and noticed "mary's minni" I believe it is called. I was thinking to give this a try to see if it also helps to maybe slow down the confusion in my body and all it has to process. I do like the idea of making it even more simple so that my body does not have to guess and that it can just heal my lifes work of destruction.. I will give this a try starting hopefully over the weekend. Only thing I need to do is to get some groceries. My choice starch is going to be potatoes since they are so delicious hot or cold which leaves me so many options. Not to mention I love quick and easy

Wanted to add to this that though I say I feel so tired, I think what is causing me to feel so tired is that I have this constant haze over my head. Like I feel nauseated most the time. Which of course does take allot of energy to "act" like nothing is wrong. Really hoping whatever this is that to try this minni way of eating helps me so much. I would give most anything to feel so happy and full of life with so much energy again. Would go back to 80/10/10 but I am worried that I will still fail since it is a very restrictive way of life.

Again thank you all so very much for your thoughts. It means allot to me

[nayasmom]

Wanted to add to this that though I say I feel so tired, I think what is causing me to feel so tired is that I have this constant haze over my head. Like I feel nauseated most the time. Which of course does take allot of energy to "act" like nothing is wrong. Really hoping whatever this is that to try this minni way of eating helps me so much. I would give most anything to feel so happy and full of life with so much energy again. Would go back to 80/10/10 but I am worried that I will still fail since it is a very restrictive way of life.

Again thank you all so very much for your thoughts. It means allot to me

Okay, this might sound waaaay off base, but this to me screamed out "migraine!" I have migraines occasionally, but the odd part is that there is no pain involved. I know I am getting one because I get the aura, then I go blind in that eye, and then I get nauseated. Sometimes the nausea lasts for a couple of days. The aura and blindness might last a few minutes, or a couple of hours. I never get pain, though.
The nausea is from brain pain, whether you feel it or not. If you don't have a history of migraine, then it could be sinusitis of a chronic nature.
Robyn

[Sunflwrgirl]

Nayasmom, I have never had migraines before so I really dont know what it means to have them. In the front of my head I get a somewhat pressure with a nauseating feeling. Kind of has me feeling like when you need to drink more water or if you are needing to eat. But I try to drink 2 liters of water a day and I eat when Im hungry to include I have even tried to eat some to make this nauseous feeling go away too.

I am going to research the migraine idea more and see what I come up with. Do you think If I am getting migraines it can be from detoxing and stress? I have spoke to people who get them, but these are people who eat high fat and lots of sodas.

[nayasmom]

Frontal sinus pressure with nausea can be sinusitis. It can also be migraine. Neither has to have pain involved, but you might find relief if you take a headache preparation. I can never remember which nsaid treats what kind of pain so I can't suggest one.
And yes, stress can be a trigger. Pollen (it is springtime after all) can be a trigger for sinusitis.
Something that surprised me is that I haven't had the bad pollen reaction this year, but I did have a migraine just last week, first time in maybe two years. It didn't seem that long lasting; I had the aura and went blind in my left eye but it passed within minutes, and I didn't feel the nausea that time. The aura is the flashing light in the eyeball. For me it's jagged, like lightning, and starts at the outer edge and gradually moves across the entire eye. For some people it's like polka dots of light, or one dot of light that seems to float like a bouncing ball screen saver on a computer screen.
Anyway, I think the low fat diet is very helpful overall, and definitely lowering the total protein consumed in a 24-hour period is a good bet as well.
One thing that will help is to wear sunglasses in light, especially outside. When you're lying down, try to keep the room as dark as possible, remove all the electrical stuff out of the area where you sleep that you can, or keep them unplugged when not in use, and keep the room temperature a bit on the cool side. Drink tepid liquids rather than cold or hot. Some people find that caffeine helps, others find that chocolate helps. Some, like me, just want to curl up and be left alone.
The constant tiredness can be from migraine activity, and it can also be chronic low-grade fever. Fever usually indicates sinusitis. Doctors always want to push antibiotics for sinusitis, but I've been happy with a homeopathic sinusitis remedy, so homeopathy is my go-to process of preference.
Robyn

[Lesliec1]

I was tired a lot in the beginning. It kind of drove me nuts wondering why. It just took a while to get healthy.i can't remember how long it took but I'm not tired at all any more.

One thing that really helped me: When I had mainly potatoes and sweet potatoes as my starches, my energy was awesome! Like you described above when yours was good. So I thought maybe grains made me tired. Possibly experiment to see if that's you too. Now, potatoes are still my main starch but I do eat grains sometimes without getting tired.

Looking back I think it was this, to summarize: Before I was "healed" which took some time, things like grains were a bit toxic to my system. Now, it's not a big deal.

It's awful to be tired. I feel for you! Try to experiment a little with diff foods but stay with it and try not to worry too much. it just takes time.

[MINNIE]

Snflwrgrl, I had one more thought.

Your posts don't mention where you live, but have you moved recently, or changed your activity level a lot?

I had migraines when I was younger , but thankfully they have not recurred in the past few years. The only time I have a problem is if I am in a different environment, particularly at higher altitudes that I am used to. I used to have spring pollen allergic symptoms every year, which have not bothered at all me since I started a strictly plant-based diet. However, when I travel from the Midwest to the far west, I will sometimes get symptoms from the local plants - none of this is a big deal for me because the reaction is usually pretty mild. But, it's something to consider. You can look up pollen counts and air quality conditions for your area on the internet, and see if there is any correlation with how you feel.

It's possible that you could be having some migraine or allergy symptoms, even if they are subtle. You may be adjusting to these changes. I'm just guessing, of course:).

On the other hand, maybe a pysical exam with a thyroid check, would be helpful to just to rule things out.

[Ampin Up]

Sorry to hear about your tiredness. I suggest more whole starches unless you are certain you are getting enough food. I know you think you are, but have a potato next time it happens and see if that helps. Low blood sugar can cause tiredness. If you are shorting yourself on calories, your blood sugar could be running low.

Just a comment on NSAIDS since the subject came up. Avoid them if at all possible. They can cause leaky gut.

Best to you.

[Sunflwrgirl]

Nayasmom - Thank you for the in depth help. I have also researched the migraine idea as well as carefully read over your description and I do have some of the symptoms but only the more mild ones. I dont have blurred vision to the extreme of the aura or pain in either side of my head. Most of it is more located like where my sinuses are. Which leads me to believe that this is a strong possibility. However, last night I did purposely fix me a large bowl of brown rice with honey and cinnamon before going to bed. I notice that today I am feeling much better. Which is telling me that maybe I am eating more of the veggies than I am of grains. I normally try to go with what I feel like eating, but to be honest that is more fruits and veggies. Though I am strong and know better than to eat allot of fruit on this woe, I will eat as much veggies as I desire and be full from.

So with all this being said, I am going to push harder and try to eat more starches than veggies and see how this does for me. I did just purchase 3 large bags of organic red potatoes and plan to begin Mary's Minni starting tomorrow. I am craving to make my spaghetti using McDougalls package tomato soup over whole wheat spaghetti with mushrooms and onions added and possibly a can of fire roasted tomatoes MMmmmm

Also drinking tepid water is my life. lol People think I am so funny when I say I dont want a cold drink. I love room temperature so much more and if its cold then I dont seem to drink it or even want it. Thankful for this since I dont have to worry about having ice around like so many do.

Last Im not big on taking pills either. When I had done that master cleanse I felt soooo much better. Its crazy how much I have changed over the past 2 years alone. I used to be all about diet pills, weight training muscle proteins and such. I think the best thing that ever happen to me was the scare that I possibly had M.S. Which is when I decided to do the cleanse. I feel so blessed that I have the strength within me to have such control over my eating and fitness. If I didnt there is no doubt my body would had fallen apart as it was starting to do to me 2 years ago..

Minnie - You had mention about if we moved or anything. No change for a few months now and no changes are meant to happen till July. Looking forward to it as we are currently living in El Paso Texas which is as dry and desert like as you can get your mind to imagine. The dust does get thick and heavy here at times and I would not doubt that is of no help either..

Ampin Up - I am confused when you are talking about the Leaky Gut. I tried to see where someone else had mention this and I think I missed it. Can you please explain more what I might be doing that can cause this since I for sure dont want to cause this to happen?...

[Ampin Up]

Ampin Up - I am confused when you are talking about the Leaky Gut. I tried to see where someone else had mention this and I think I missed it. Can you please explain more what I might be doing that can cause this since I for sure dont want to cause this to happen?...

Since Nayasmom said " I can never remember which nsaid treats what kind of pain so I can't suggest one.", I am suggesting you avoid NSAIDS if possible. I am not suggesting that you are doing anything currently that I know of that would cause this.

You are a very thorough and organized person. That will help you to live this lifestyle.