Psoriatic Arthritis Journal - 2.5 year Update Page 63

[lmggallagher]

Oh, Michelle, that sounds so horrible!

I have had headaches where I could not sleep recently, once quite recently after I was sick sick, but also a few other times right before a "detox" period.

Detox periods for me have been like this: Headaches, extreme fatigue, brain fog, joint pain, general uptick in pain and and all-over body tenderness and sensitivity. I have also had chills, mild* fevers, swollen glands, digestive upsets (tummy boiling and burning, sharp pains in digestive tract), rashes, uveitis, coated tongue, bad breath and body odor, weird smelling urine, constipation or the opposite and itchiness.

I have had low body temperatures, too, but not below 97 that I know of.

Michelle, I definitely hope that whatever is going on for you, whether it is detox, tertiary flu stuff, coming off antibiotics or a combination, ends very soon! Please keep us updated on how you are, and really, truly take very good care of yourself!

XOXOXO

Nicole

*I accidentally typed "milf fevers" first, which I corrected, but then thought was too funny not to at least add here. MILF Fever! Whoo Hoo!

Nicole - thanks so much for the complete list of all the symptoms of detox and yep it's clear to me that's what I am doing, being it food or the Tamiflu and/or antibiotics. Due to the really metallic taste I had going - I tend to think it's mostly the drugs. Also, thanks for the new texting abbr. Not one I'll be able to use myself, but funny

Another question -- have you ever gone through a period of detoxing that was out of the blue - no real connection to an actual fasting period, bad foods, or other toxic load?

xoxoxox & oao - Michelle

[moonwatcher]

Hi nicoles,

I just finished listening to that podcast "The Bitter End." Thanks. That was fascinating. And not surprising, at least as far as the doctors are concerned. That's pretty much how my doctor feels. I remember talking about it with him when I updated my will, the year before I started eating this way. And it's what I have written down. But the lawyer also told me that if you don't want CPR, you need to make sure your relatives don't call for it, because once the paramedics come to your house, that's what you get, no matter what may be written down. Or something to that effect. It's a bizarre state of affairs we find ourselves in. Now I need to go back and see if I said no CPR. I think I did. I certainly said no to everything else. True to character. "Just say no" moonwatcher!!

xo

moonwatcher

[nicoles]

Michelle , that's right! Metallic taste is also one of the things that happens to me when a detox is going on. It was kinda the saem taste I'd get if I bit on steel or a penny. Very weird and unpleasant.

Yes, I definitely have had them occur just out of the blue. That is one of the things that led me to believe that my body is just working and working on all the old backlog of stuff, even though I have been eating this way for 2 years now!

(and yes, MILF is not in my common usage either, but a funny typo? Sure, why not? )


Just Say No, Moonwatcher! I am glad you found it interesting, the podcast, I mean. I have heard the same thing about CPR, that they will just do it no matter what.

xoxo

[lmggallagher]

Nicole;

I find it most interesting that us "pain & fatigue gals" seem to get this detox thing and it does just happen sometimes randomly, where as other folks loosing weight on this WOE kind of debunk the idea. As in the response Jim gave to a person that was going through this. I think there is a human tendency to write off things that haven't been part of our experience - but boy has it ever been part of ours!

As for "The Stray Shopping Carts of Eastern North America: A Guide to Field Identification" - I will have to get this and put it on the shelf in our Food Closet Lending Library - I am certain it will be the biggest hit of all time!!!!

[nicoles]

Eri, if you want more inspiration for books you might be able to write, there's also this one (read the reviews, too - too funny!)

Moonwatcher! I received and read Grayson (in one evening no less) and I absolutely loved it! Lynne Cox is remarkable already, but that story is amazing!! Thank you thank you thank you for telling me about it!

Michelle, I know what you mean about us chronic tiredness/autoimmune people and detox. Every time I see someone new write something about it in the lounge and get almost attacked by people who have not experienced it, I try to send a pm and say - heads up, I had that too, you aren't nuts, it might be real etc.

It's interesting - I am a viewing member at Dr F's site and he and the other MDs (Dr Klaper of True North is one of them) in his Ask the Doctor Forums readily acknowledge detox - from the typical initial headaches and icky-ness that comes from things like going off coffee, sugar, animal and refined foods to the more chronic, months-long kind that comes from metabolizing the toxins stored in our fats.

They basically say as long as you have any excess fat (and for some people really ANY excess) you have the potential to experience a detox. And that fatigue is a very big sign of a detox, too, as I recall reading once.

Which could explain why one could be on an elimination diet, and eating everything 100% perfectly and STILL have symptoms like joint or muscle pains - its not in the food you eat, it's in the food you ate and are still wearing, or breaking down

From my own experiences I believe detox is real, and I sometimes wonder if we prolonged detox folks also have some sort of Phase I or Phase II liver malfunction*, but that is just my own wild theory from reading a lot of alternative medicine stuff the last two years.

*read the Drug Metabolism in the Liver paragraph for short overview

[Lesliec1]

I want that shopping cart book. How if the world do you find those things on Amazon? This was my favorite review:

As a certified straycartologist I applaud the effort to publicize this issue. I only hope we can convince those crumb bums in Washington that expanding our coverage to the rest of North America can only be achieved with copious federal spending.

Like the question burning in the loins of Lewis and Clark before us, what will the West reveal? My crotch is afire with this question: what will the West reveal about...ourselves? [For full effect, deliver that last word in a fervent whisper]

-------------------
I love good writing and humor. I don't care where it is.

Oh and I just saw the "Huge Ship" book except, unlike shopping carts, that's not a real book. So bizarre that people use Amazon just to post their funny musings. Why not? I love it. A whole new outlet for creativity.

[Debbie]

Has anyone here ever had phantom ammonia smells? I used to get them all the time before having half my thyroid removed, like multiple times a day. At first I'd think the cat had an accident but over time I realized I was the only one who smelled it. After surgery I didn't have that smell until recently, maybe in the past 3 months. Its not as strong as it used to be, it used to burn my nose and make me nauseous, and not as frequent but it still comes once in a while.

Ive looked up causes and head trauma is a major cause. But Ive not had a head trauma, not including my kids and hubby But then again that's my sanity not brain .

But Ive also had that metallic taste. I just ignored it thinking it was in my head.

Now as for detox, no attacking here for Ive had it too just not bad as some have described, there was a member who describe their detox as having the flu.....for over a month. They felt awful. Although the word used was transition not detox. When I first started this way of eating I had none of that. I just did the plan and felt nothing bad. Maybe cause I was sick and didn't notice? But I had no cravings, no headaches, no nausea, nothing. It was as if I had been eating this way forever. That's why I was surprised when I started my little challenge that I had those what I called detox symptoms. I try not to talk about them much, especially in the lounge for there are those who have never had them and think if it didn't happen to them it is not real, no matter what it is. I certainly don't feel the need to defend that I felt like crap for a while when I went "clean". Why didn't I get detox back in the beginning? I have no clue. I suppose it doenst matter. I just know that it is real and I think some have it worse than others.

[nicoles]

Leslie - I love that review!

My DH keeps sending me these amazon review things- he got on a kick with them after I showed him the banana slicer one and now I get a few from him every day. It's kind of cool how the internet has made it possible for so many talented funny people to share their humor.

Debbie - I might have had the phantom ammonia smell! every now and then I am like, "where did the cats pee?!?!?" and my DH is all, "I don't smell anything." Never thought about it as anything other than my superior olfactory skills, but might be a thing. Hm. I don't have any head trauma either, except the kind like you have

I think I mentioned this once before, but a friend was telling me that after she had a terrible gut infection and was on tons of antibiotics (hospitalized and everythang!) and almost certainly had her good bowel flora wiped out, she smelled all sorts of weird things, some there but different than normal, some not there, for many months. Then that stopped, presumably when her good little guys grew back.

I think I would not have believed in detox if I did not have it myself, I know that. Good thing to keep on the down low for the most part, though, otherwise folks think I am really loopy, not just a little.

[moonwatcher]

Well, I'm a "believer" in detox, too. And an experiencer. I call it the "same flu" I get whenever I get those kind of symtpoms. It can still be periodic, though not as much or as often. And this is five years in. Also what comes out the "other end" is occasionally quite awful and is an indication that I've let go of something nasty in terms of detox. And then the attendant "flu" goes away. So my body's definitely workin' on it. I like the "fat" idea, nicoles, from the Furhman site. Scatalogically speaking, I like to laugh to myself that I'm pooping out the old dead saturated fat that was clogging my brain!! (Sorry for the poop stuff, I almost didn't mention it, but hey, it's part of "detox"--and "transition" right?)

(On the Swank board, I found that people who use diet to improve their MS symptoms often joke about having too much fat in their brains. A whole different idea of being a fat head I guess. )

xoxo

moonwatcher

[eri]

^^ Fat head-- ha! I love it!
So lemme ask a question. How do you (AI peeps) distinguish a detox episode from a flare?! Sometimes I have had the "flu" when it was clearly not flu season. I always attributed it to a flare.

[nicoles]

Fat Head That's awesome!

Yeah, I am a total believer in detox. And I feel like I see it everywhere, at least the possibility of it.

A friend of ours quit smoking cigarettes about 6 months ago and then a month or so after she quit she started getting sick all the time - coughing, mostly and breathing stuff. She decided it was that there was mold in their place - which is possible, but she never had it checked out or saw any - and so they are moving out (it is a rental.) I have no idea why it really is happening,of course, but I must admit a part of me was like, "I wonder if she is just detoxing from years of smoking?" because her husband did not have that experience of a mold reaction AND because she quit smoking.

Eri, I have wondered that myself, distinguishing a flare from being sick. For me, the being sick, or flare up episode usually ends with me feeling not just better, but WAY better than I did before I got sick/flared up/detoxed for me to call it detox.

The other thought I have had for that was: what if detoxing triggers a flare? So it might be a flare, but a flare triggered by processing and getting rid of stored junk, in which case, the only way out is through, and I'll be better off on the other side.

[nicoles]

I saw this on the Dr F boards today, and debated posting it, because I am directly quoting from his site, but then I decided it was OK to do.

Anyway, this might be a helpful way to test foods for anyone having real trouble sticking with the Elimination Diet long term

RA plagued me bad, could not walk, etc. But, following the good doctors plan, I am walking great, no steroids, metho. or other pills they were giving me.

I still get a couple of attacks once in a while, but, nothing an advil would not take care of. Fact is, I do what the good doctor says, write down what you eat and see what triggers the flare ups.

I thought that peppers and tomatoes (anything in the nightshade family) caused flare ups and I avoided them. Turns out, I eat them now and they do not bother me. For some reason corn gives me a flare up after a couple of days, so I stay away from that, though I do try it in small quantities to get me used to it every so often.

Main thing is to focus on what you eat and write it down and then see in a couple of days if something happens. Then you know not to eat it. I keep a positive mental attitude and know that I will lick this foreign invader RA. I know that you can do the same.

[moonwatcher]

Thanks for post this, nicole. I don't have RA but actually I teased out my additional food sensitivites by doing something pretty much identical to this strategy. I think it works just as well, but you do have to pay attention to what you are eating to do it.

I enjoyed reading someone with a similar approach that also worked!

moonwatcher

[nicoles]

Thanks for post this, nicole. I don't have RA but actually I teased out my additional food sensitivites by doing something pretty much identical to this strategy. I think it works just as well, but you do have to pay attention to what you are eating to do it.

I enjoyed reading someone with a similar approach that also worked!

moonwatcher

That's great! I am glad to hear that this is what worked for you, too! Cool stuff.

[nicoles]

So with some mulling it over, and a little help from a friend, I decided to share some more information about my detoxing experience, inspired by Moonwatcher's scatalogical post.


When I started eating this way, I used to feel good from when I ate until about 2 hours later, and then I'd start to feel bad in my joints, and also tired. More than once I also noticed that I'd be feeling really bad, like a flare was coming up, and then I'd eat or poop, and I'd feel miraculously better!

So it got me to thinking: What if I felt better when I was digesting food (2 hour period after eating) in the anabolic (building up) phase of digestion and then when I started on the catabolic (breaking down) phase of digestion I started to feel bad because I was catabolize-ing "toxic" waste?

And what if I felt better after I pooped because all that junk was hanging out in my gut and messing with my immunoglobulins and whatnot?


Anyway just my experience, maybe this is true for others.