Gaining Weight

[TheGreenBird]

Debbie and I have touched on this together, but I need some help here. My 14 month old, who has always been on the small side and born at 4 1/2 lbs full term, has lost weight for the first time...and it's since starting a vegan/McDougall diet with him. He was in the 18 lb range at his 12 month appointment and has been a the Dr. twice since then (one time being yesterday) and has been in the low 17 lb range.

The problem is, he really doesn't like the high fat whole food. Peanut butter and other nut butters - won't touch them, not a big fan of avocado or quac anymore, doesn't like olives. I don't know what else to give him for fat/calories besides oil! I know that isn't considered a real food and not a health food so I hate to give it to him, but what do you give a kid that is losing weight? He drinks hemp milk (probably around 16-20 oz a day normally) which is fairly high in fat for a milk substitute, but Iguess that's not enough.

I am going to ask our doc at his 15 month appointment in a couple weeks. She knows we are on a plant based diet and is extremely happy with that and proud of us (it's a very holistic, healthy family practice), but I also know they're not going to be keen on him losing weight....

[lamazemama]

He is not breastfeeding, right?

I would honestly probably use some formula if not breastfeeding. In addition, how about adding some coconut oil to things? Coconut milk yogurt?

[lfwfv]

what about lots of bread/cracker/muffin type foods? Or hummus with tahini snuck into it? cereals, soymilk, coconut milk...

[circle city vegan]

This age range is when they start walking(running). My kiddos always got lean when they first started walking because they were too busy to eat. My first one I freaked out and then after that I just waited. By the time they were 2, they were perfectly pudgy the way babies are supposed to be.

You could walk around with a baggie of corn, diced potatoes, peas, whatever and give him one literally every couple minutes as he explores the house.

Dr. McDougall does talk about instances where oil has been added to the diet to increase calories. Remember the story about the orphans fed nothing but potatoes with added oil?

Seriously though, if the eyes are bright and alert, don't worry too much about it.

[ETeSelle]

I don't have kids so take this FWIW. But kids will NOT starve themselves. He probably IS exercising now for the first time so he'll lean up a bit. But as long as he's eating plenty, with good variety, he will NOT waste away to nothing! I would avoid making a big thing of it. Keep offering a variety of nutritious foods and just let nature take its course.

[circle city vegan]

Debbie: I have a 10 yr. old that was born at 9lbs, 12oz. and now he's all of 75lbs and about 46in tall. Genetically he is supposed to be this way even though he was so big at birth. General rule of thumb is to take a look at mom and dad and guess that somewhere in between is where the kids are going to be as far as height/weight.

I'm not saying that you should stop trying to fatten up your little mouse, but I hate to see you get stressed out over it. Just keep up the added calories but don't worry so much.

[circle city vegan]

I'm so glad that your not so worried.

I also forgot to mention that if you worry and push food too much, then you're setting yourself up for food battles in the future. If kids get the idea that they can control a situation and cause you to go nuts, they will.

[David Lux]

Hi Jenny,
Do I understand correctly that your 14mo son is following the McDougall diet ?
Please beware that the McDougall diet is not suitable for children below 2, unless you supplement it with breastmilk.
Kids below 2 need cholesterol in their diet, as the liver cannot reliably manufacture it below that age. Also, they need more fat, as they grow a lot of nerve tissue, including the brain, and you probably don't want to mess around with that, do you ?

I know because I have 2 kids myself; they have been adopted so breastmilk was not a possibility. At the time I have discussed with Dr McDougall because it was a strong concern for me. I would advise you to ask him for an opinion.

What we did was to supplement their diet with a little animal products: ham and eggs. Then at 2 we weaned them from the animal products and put them to 100% compliant McDougall diet. Well, at least til they went to school...

Good luck,

David

[edamama]

Hey, Jenny,

I just wanted to echo what David said and that I would be worried, too, if I were in your shoes. My son is the exact same age and is smaller than his older brother at the same age, but not falling behind on his growth.

I think adding something like eggs would be a good idea until he is 2 and then he can start on the regular McD plan. Or, go back to formula.

Hope things are going better for you.

[David Lux]

Unless I'm wrong, Dr McD advice was:

From birth to 6mo: exclusive breastfeeding
From 6mo to 12mo: mostly breastfeeding, can be supplemented by McD items, if baby is interested
From 12mo to 24mo: McD diet is perfectly safe for baby, if supplemented by breastmilk

In our situation (adopted babies), breastmilk was not an option. He had no other advice. He suggested breastmilk banks. I don't know in the US but over here, breastmilk is scarce and would perhaps be available for premature new borns, but definitely not for toddlers, so that was not an option.

Given that we decided to supplement with some animal products, until the age of 2. In my original post I thought I made clear that it was what we had done and not Dr McD's recommendation

Just to clarify

[David Lux]

Deb,

I'm not saying this diet is not suitable for children, after all our children thrive on it.

I'm saying it's not suitable for children below 2, unless supplemented by breast milk. According to Dr McD himself, cholesterol is manufactured by the liver, but this process is not reliable below that age of 2. Breastmilk, technically an "animal" product, contains cholesterol.
Another problem is that babies grow a lot of nerve tissues as their nervous system including their brain is under major delevopment. This development is mostly finished at the age of 2. If you take the breastmilk composition as a reference to what a baby diet should be, you would get 5% protein, 45% carbohydrates, and 50% fat. Good fats are essential for brain development, therefore I would not feed a child less than 2 yo a pure McDougall diet.

As McDougalling parents, we wanted to feed our kids a McDougall diet as well, therefore we had some discussions with Dr McD then (in 2004). He said ok with breastmilk. Without breastmilk, he had no solution and therefore we decided to add animal products.

Our reasoning was that we started McDougalling at the age of 40 and he was not too late. So if our children started at the age of 2 (instead of 1) it would not be too late either. Even if we gave them some animal products, they had had before us plenty of animal products anyway, so a bit more would probably not kill them.

I take note that breastmilk can be found on the web. That is nice to know but irrelevant to us as we plan no more kids. I just wonder if I would feed my baby with "breastmilk" sold by some unknown person found on the web.

[edamama]

I think the real point here is that the OP's child is not thriving on this diet. Not gaining weight is one issue, but losing weight is another.

If it were me and my child, I would rather see my child grow instead of holding firm to an idealogical way of eating. I'm not saying to load him up on french fries and chicken nuggets, but a soft-boiled egg a few times a week is just as much a traditional part of many starch-based eating cultures as are all of the other low-fat plant foods. Just to repeat, that is my opinion and what I would do.

I just pulled out the E2 book and he says on page 38: "By the age of two (once off mother's milk), every child is ready for a plant-strong diet."

The OP is not breastfeeding. Let's not beat her up for that. Only very few children in America are breastfed until age 2, so a true McD or even E2 way of eating cannot be applied to every single child.

[TheGreenBird]

Sorry, it's been hard for me to get back here, but I wanted to thank everyone for their ideas and thoughts here.
A few things...no I am not breastfeeding any longer. It's a very emotional topic for me, but basically I planned to bf untilat least 2, older hopefully,and I had to abruptly quit at 6 months. It was traumatic (for both of us) and awful and I feel guilty every day about, but there was no choice,I was very sick.

Anyway, he had been sick off and on for a few weeks when I was very worried about this, but he had gained back the 1-2 lbs he lost by his 15 month appointment last week, so I feel better and I don't think he's "not thriving" on this diet.

He eats a McDougall diet basically, but I add more fat (vegan butter, oils, snacks with higher fat content, etc). And, while he's not breastfed anymore, he is consuming about 16-20 oz of hemp milk each day which has essential fatty acids, B12, etc. I'm not going to give him meat or eggs just to add a few lbs to him when there are other ways to consume fat. I just don't believe any animal products are beneficial or okay to eat. Oh, I also started giving him coconut milk yogurt - he loves it and it's pretty high in fat.

I can't remember if I added this to the OP, but he was only 4 1/2 lbs when he was born (full term). So he gained A LOT of weightin the first 6 months to "catch up". He was at negative % on the charts at birth and got up to about 6-10% and is now in the 1-2%. So while he has dropped, I still don't feel like weighing 19 1/2 lbs at 15 months old is THAT bad for a 4 1/2 lb baby. He's not destined to be a linebacker

[TheGreenBird]

Debbie, thank you for getting in touch with him and sharing! That is really good to know. So it sounds like there is no benefit to adding egg and dairy to a diet, even in a child under 2. I wonder though, what about if breastfeeding is not possible? Is a milk sub like hemp milk that has fat and vitamins added okay as long as they are eating solid foods (ie: obviously it's not okay under 12 months and def. not under 6).

I hate having a picky eater on top of limiting his food choices, but really, even before I started the vegan diet it's not like he ate a lot and he didn't like meat, refused eggs, cheese, etc. so I'm not sure, even if I let him eat ANYTHING AT ALL, it would make a bit of difference.

I used to count an the avocado (he loved guacamole), but now he won't touch it. So I've just been trying to get him to eat lots of coconut milk yogurt and adding oil to his foods.

[ETeSelle]

Jenny, you are shortish and have a small frame yourself--not sure how tall hubby is? But that might also account for Lucas not being burly, no? I assume they correlate weight w/ height when they figure these things, but he may have a smaller frame as well. He certainly looks the picture of health in the pix I've seen!