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The Swede wrote:Geo, I try to follow the McDougall Program and eat when hungry, but you think it's not necessary to count the calories so I really get more calories than I burn?
human vegetable wrote:Sounds like you're the prototypical "hardgainer" who is naturally lean. Even though your build may be ideal for longevity, this is somehow in conflict with present beauty ideals, and you might feel torn between your health commitment and your aesthetic endeavors.
Geoff has a point: Go by feel. If you're hungrier because of your workouts, feel free to increase portion sizes, or consume richer food (again, as advised by Dr. McD personally in his old newsletters). However, if eating becomes a chore, and you feel that you have to force the food down, stop stuffing yourself.
If you do decide to engage in a temporary "bulking" diet, you should carefully monitor your body composition to make sure that the weight you gain is predominantly muscle, and not fat. I think it is most useful to measure skin fold thickness in the 2-3 places where you carry the most fat. Even without computing a body fat percentage (which, whichever method you use, will only be a rough estimate anyways), you get a quick and reliable update on any changes.
In order to get some background on this: How old are you? Have you had any previous exposure to strength training, and if so, for how long? Most naturally lean people won't gain that much muscle whatever they do, so you should set modest goals and have realistic expectations about your progress. The typical mistake would be to turn your wiry physique into a skinny-fat one in the quest for muscle, just as committed by thousands of teenage meatheads worldwide every year.
The Swede wrote:human vegetable wrote:Sounds like you're the prototypical "hardgainer" who is naturally lean. Even though your build may be ideal for longevity, this is somehow in conflict with present beauty ideals, and you might feel torn between your health commitment and your aesthetic endeavors.
Geoff has a point: Go by feel. If you're hungrier because of your workouts, feel free to increase portion sizes, or consume richer food (again, as advised by Dr. McD personally in his old newsletters). However, if eating becomes a chore, and you feel that you have to force the food down, stop stuffing yourself.
If you do decide to engage in a temporary "bulking" diet, you should carefully monitor your body composition to make sure that the weight you gain is predominantly muscle, and not fat. I think it is most useful to measure skin fold thickness in the 2-3 places where you carry the most fat. Even without computing a body fat percentage (which, whichever method you use, will only be a rough estimate anyways), you get a quick and reliable update on any changes.
In order to get some background on this: How old are you? Have you had any previous exposure to strength training, and if so, for how long? Most naturally lean people won't gain that much muscle whatever they do, so you should set modest goals and have realistic expectations about your progress. The typical mistake would be to turn your wiry physique into a skinny-fat one in the quest for muscle, just as committed by thousands of teenage meatheads worldwide every year.
Thanks for your answer human vegetable.
Yes I think so too, but at the same time I have done genetic DNA test via https://www.23andme.com/ and the test showed that I have good genetics for building muscles and be strong. My brothers and cousins also have easy to build muscles and are very strong. So I suppose it is in the family, genetic conditions to be strong and build muscles.
I have lost much muscles and have not been traning for long know, still meat eating bodybuilding friends is impressed that I still could be so strong as a skinny vegan who have lost muscles etc against them in strength tests.
But can I go by feel, and eat til I feel satisfied, if (like I wrote here: viewtopic.php?p=590585#p590585 ) the body and the stomach will be satisfied with the volym of food, even if it mean not enough calories I might need? Or do you think the body will naturally, will give signs if it needs more calories even if the stomach is filled with a lot of volym of food (and i fill full), but quit love calorie and not enough?
Also the big question is about bulding back my muscles = more calories = probably more than recommended = shorter life and more risk of disease? ( as compared to the adventists who eats I belive just 1800 calories a day and living longest and most healthiestby all: viewtopic.php?p=590719#p590719 )
I am 32 old man. Cirka 182 cm tall. About 70 kg or so. I have exposure to strength training from 2001 and on and off over the years. Been vegan since 2011.
(When I was like 18 or back in 2003-2004 when my weight was as highest at 85 kilo (but mostly maybe 82-83 kilos or so) if I do not remember it wrong. I ate the standard diet then, but lof carbohydrates but also a lot of meat etc, but I was never overeating, and I was no fat, little fat on my body in general. I was quite thin, but had muscles, lean muscles, but bigger than I have today and six pack etc, and no IBS as today. I guess that is easier when one is at that age)
So I have been weight training and building muscles over the years. Not so much, but I compare myself only to myself and the successes compared to the way I previously had. When I became Vegan 2011, I lost many kilos of weight and quite a lot of muscles. A few years ago, I started weight training again, but this time more seriously than before or less or more like a bodybuilder / athlete. I did not take protein powder or other additives, just 100% vegan, starch-based, plus a lot of nuts, dates, and other high calorie foods. I ate more calories than I did before and what I eat today. I went from a thin vegan to something like a more muscular vegan. So I know it is possible.
In recent years, however, I have barely been weight training at all, and I do not eat all so much calories as I did when weight training, so im back where I started and being a thin vegan. Three reasons for this is. I have had to abandon much of the food and amount I have eaten earlier because I have IBS and many carbohydrates I can not eat (FODMAP), + that big amount of food and calories, as it creates problems and pain in the stomach and assumes that it hurts the body and can not be healthy in the long run. And also I came across some articles and others who suggested that weight training is dangerous, as it shortens one's life and increases the risk of disease, mostly because of the need to eat unnaturally much calories and volym of food that harms the body.
But I do not like how thin I've become, and would have liked to keep those muscles and more that I built. It is also about self-esteem. And I love to lift weight and feel strong.I remember girls gave me compliments for my muscles etc. It may sound vain, and I know health is more important (but mental health is also important), I prioritize health first and I'm not looking for unnaturally big muscles or so as i said, but would like to get back my muscles ( and I know I can) and a little bit while living healthy and long life, if it is possible and compatible? I dont mind if it has to be slower gains.
So, what I am asking myself and you guys is if I should or must sacrifice the gym and the muscles for health, or sacrifice the health for the the gym and the muscles? Or I am thinking if there is an compromise and a middle way to handle this that is healthy, and if so I am trying to figure out how?
I am pondering so much over this, that it becomes painful to think about. Feels mentaly unhealthy to think so much about it. So I have some great anxiety about this and do not know what to think about it, or what actions I should take.
Dougalling wrote:Hello
Check out The Game Changers video.
Search plant based bodybuilding online.
Poison Ivy wrote:Dougalling wrote:Hello
Check out The Game Changers video.
Search plant based bodybuilding online.
I just watched Game Changers video. That one super strongman with the sideburns looked overweight to me. I mean he had a huge pot belly.
I wonder how healthy this guy really is despite his PB diet and amazing strength?
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