Dr. McDougall's Online Discussion Board

Recently posted in the Lounge, this article has proven to be a helping hand in dietary simplification. Thus I'm posting here in the fitness section as well.

With all of the discussion about recent events at the Advanced Study Weekend, coupled with frequent emails I receive about 'how I do it' (eat), I sat down and wrote out a pretty simple description of what eating looks like for me. I realize it shook down to 5 food groups and it is very, very simple.

The 5 food groups: My simple plan for a whole foods, low-fat, plant-based diet

I would love feedback, either on the blog or here, from this smart and earnest group at McDougall Forums. Is it helpful? Does it leave some big questions? Thus far all responses have been very positive, yet I'm always looking to improve the message.

Thanks!

Lani

Thanks. This is really helpful!

schermel wrote:Thanks. This is really helpful!

Thanks, I am glad and appreciative of the feedback!

Lani

Lani,
I just had time to read through your helpful post. I bookmarked it because I am often asked, "But what do you EAT?" when people find out that I don't eat animals, dairy, or especially oil!! You did a beautiful job of showing how simple and healthy and well-rounded our diets can really be. And, you gave us fellow travellers a tool to share with others who want to know how it's done.

I also really like how you broke it down into portion sizes and approximate calorie counts for those who really need that kind of guideline to follow. But, I agree with you that there is so much freedom in moving away from that dieting mentality and into more intuitive eating according to hunger. That being said, it takes some time to get there; to trust the process.

So, thanks for being a great example of how it's done, and for laying it all out so clearly! Well done!

kirstykay wrote:Lani,
I just had time to read through your helpful post. I bookmarked it because I am often asked, "But what do you EAT?" when people find out that I don't eat animals, dairy, or especially oil!! You did a beautiful job of showing how simple and healthy and well-rounded our diets can really be. And, you gave us fellow travellers a tool to share with others who want to know how it's done.

I also really like how you broke it down into portion sizes and approximate calorie counts for those who really need that kind of guideline to follow. But, I agree with you that there is so much freedom in moving away from that dieting mentality and into more intuitive eating according to hunger. That being said, it takes some time to get there; to trust the process.

So, thanks for being a great example of how it's done, and for laying it all out so clearly! Well done!

Kirstykay, thank you and I'm so glad I posted that article, it seems to be a hit and I appreciate your comments.

I plan to put together some serving size ideas for those who can really use the help. You know why? I find one of the most common errors is people not eating ENOUGH! So if I look at it that way, I'm more confident about it being a plus.

I really appreciate your input in putting together this guide. I'm always eager for feedback so that I can just make things better and more useful. Please, keep me informed about any other improvements you think would be helpful!

Lani

Excellent job Lani. Very clear and quick.
You rock.
f1jim

f1jim wrote:Excellent job Lani. Very clear and quick.
You rock.
f1jim

Jim, well, ditto!

I'd love any suggestions from you as I make this guide more robust. Honest.

Mahalo!

Lani

Lani,

You address practical question of what this WOE actually looks like.

I've also made a couple of attempts to describe this.

I think there are 3 key topics, and your article touches on each of these.
1. Food Groups (Fruit, Veggie, Starch, etc.)
2. Dishes (Salads, Soups, Sauces, Sides, Mains, Bakery, etc.)
3. Meals (B,L,D,S)

How the 5 food groups pan out on the plate touches on what I call dishes (which could also be portions on a my plate arrangement.) The most common summary here is 50% veggies and 50% starches, which you include.

I find I surround my main dinner starch with salads, soups and sauces, while balancing simpler meals like breakfast between just starch and fruit.

I've recently put more thought into how dishes work, and how 3 meals a day fit together. I know people take different approaches, based on taste and time, but no matter the approach shouldn't it all be able to be described in pounds and calories, and calorie density?

michaelswarm wrote:... shouldn't it all be able to be described in pounds and calories, and calorie density?

Not sure what you mean by "pounds as calories", and yes calorie density is one of the key operatives here, bottom line. My mission is to help people figure out how to put that into action in a practical way so that they can be healthy, happy, and well-fed. Going on calorie density alone without some tools of implementation and understanding about the details of satiety can lead to frustration. Which is one of the reasons I put this article together about attempts and plant-based diet failure:

My McDougall Diet Failure


Lani

Agree that calorie density needs to be applied in practical way in kitchen. Your article got me thinking some more on this. I know I shop in pounds of food per person, based on 4 lbs per day, roughly 2 lbs starches and 2 lbs veggies/fruit. What I mean on calories and pounds, and calorie density, for example...

Dishes (# in calories per pound, typical based on food group)
1. Salad (200) - raw veggies, raw fruit
2. Side (200) - cooked veggies (steamed or boiled)
3. Sauce (200) - cooked veggies, blended (marinara, salsa, ketchup)
4. Soup (350) - cooked veggies and starch, in liquid
5. Stew (350) - cooked veggies with starch
6. Mixed (350) - cooked starch with veggies or fruit (similar to stew, but more dry; mixed rice, potato salad, oats and fruit)
7. Main (500) - cooked starch (steamed or boiled; steamed rice, baked potato)
8. Bakery (1000+) - dry cooked starch (bread, rice cakes, popcorn)

Meals (# in calories per pound, typical based on dish)
Meals are combinations of dishes.
1/4 lb main (500)
1/4 lb sauce (200)
1/4 lb soup (350)
1/4 lb salad (200)
1 lb total (500+200+350+200/4=312)

This is a typical dinner, which last night was cucumber onion salad with lemon rice vinegar dressing, butternut squash potato soup, and pasta with mushroom asparagus sauce.

A more simple dinner might be steamed potato or rice and beans over big bowl of salad and veggies.
1/2 lb main (500)
1/2 lb salad (200)
1 lb total (500+200/2=350)

It does all work out to pounds and calories, with calorie density between. But how to understand calorie density of more complicated meals, like the buffet at the 10 Day Program? My thinking is calorie density by dishes sits between food groups and meals?

- Food groups sort by calorie density (and macronutrient.)
- Dishes are ways of preparing food groups.
- Meals are built of dishes.

In practice, appetite controls the pounds you eat, and dishes control your calorie density. If you want to loose more weight, have more soups, stews, salads and sides. If you want to gain weight, add more main dishes and possibly some bakery.

Thanks Lani, that was very helpful.

Tracy wrote:Thanks Lani, that was very helpful.

Tracy, you're welcome! I appreciate your comments.

Lani

michaelswarm wrote:Lani,

You address practical question of what this WOE actually looks like.

I've also made a couple of attempts to describe this.

I think there are 3 key topics, and your article touches on each of these.
1. Food Groups (Fruit, Veggie, Starch, etc.)
2. Dishes (Salads, Soups, Sauces, Sides, Mains, Bakery, etc.)
3. Meals (B,L,D,S)

How the 5 food groups pan out on the plate touches on what I call dishes (which could also be portions on a my plate arrangement.) The most common summary here is 50% veggies and 50% starches, which you include.

I find I surround my main dinner starch with salads, soups and sauces, while balancing simpler meals like breakfast between just starch and fruit.

I've recently put more thought into how dishes work, and how 3 meals a day fit together. I know people take different approaches, based on taste and time, but no matter the approach shouldn't it all be able to be described in pounds and calories, and calorie density?

What? Another McDougall'er in San Jose CA? I thought I was the only one, and I'm not even an MD! Know of any MD's in San Jose/Los Gatos area who preach the starch-based plant diet? i.e. doctors who seek to address the underlying problem.

LynnCS wrote:I have been on a whirlwind of changes learning all I can about this way of eating and all that comes with it. Thank you for your article and the clear way you talk about it. My head is spinning. I will need to read it again. Don't want to miss anything. I have been subscibed to your site, but didn't really know you were on here as a team member. Like getting better acquainted with a growing friend. I am so lucky to find a person like you who understands first hand, what someone like me goes through, knows how we need to move and knows and endorses this woe. I can't thank you enough! Lynn

LynnCS,

Thank you for your absolutely lovely note and I'm so pleased that you are finding this article and others helpful. "First hand....what someone like me goes thourhg...." - yes!

Are you getting my newsletter? A notice just went out today so this is an opportunity to check that you are receiving - not sure what you mean by 'subsribed to site', that may be RSS.

At any rate, thanks again and let me know how I can be of further assist on your journey to becoming more healthy, happy and fit.

Warmly,
Lani

You are a health expert who knows her stuff....well done...!!