November 2020 McDougall MWL Weigh-In Group

[Mark Cooper]

Please note - I replied to each participant individually in the two lengthy posts linked below, provided that their reports followed the guidelines for weigh-ins.

Mark's Replies for November 6 - Part 1
Mark's Replies for November 6 - Part 2

By my count, 26 participants reported for our first November 2020 MWL weigh-in! If I neglected to include anyone, or you notice an error in the tally, please let me know (via PM so we can keep the thread as tidy as possible, or in a post here if you cannot PM).

Here are the results for the first Friday in November:

Week ending 11/6/2020: 26 participants reported a total loss of -21.00 pounds
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Josietheschnauzer +3.00
Lachoffman +1.60
Squealcat +1.30
Wstokes +1.20
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Total gains: +7.10
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Chef16 0.00
Growing a Pear 0.00
Moonspirit 0.00
Noella 0.00
Zoey 0.00
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Hope410 -0.20
Wfpb2020 -0.20
Jan_npr -0.40
Cmcavazos -0.60
GreenFroG -0.60
PonysPlants -1.00
Abe -1.20
Rebecka22 -1.60
Texaslil -1.60
CindyD -1.90
Jkcook -2.00
Alishana -2.20
VivianS -2.20
Kappagator_96 -2.40
Oneesotericgirl -2.40
JaBee -3.80
Wavingwheat -3.80
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Total losses: -28.10
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Cumulative group loss for November 2020 to date: 21.00 pounds
Average loss for week ending November 6: 0.81 pounds
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Cumulative group loss for January 2020: 384.15 pounds
Cumulative group loss for February 2020: 96.60 pounds
Cumulative group loss for March 2020: 60.10 pounds
Cumulative group loss for April 2020: 218.00 pounds
Cumulative group loss for May 2020: 191.50 pounds
Cumulative group loss for June 2020: 120.63 pounds
Cumulative group loss for July 2020: 524.80 pounds
Cumulative group loss for August 2020: 240.30 pounds
Cumulative group loss for September 2020: 172.61 pounds
Cumulative group loss for October 2020: 216.25 pounds

Next Weigh-In is on Friday, November 13, 2020.


My congratulations to all this week's participants for your dedicated efforts and achievements! As we move into the holiday season, it is as important as ever to attend to our overall pattern of behavior so that we can attain the outcomes we desire. Fortuitously, I just today received an apposite email.

Tips for Staying on Track During the Holidays

During this time of uncertainty, staying on track with our health and diet is more important than ever. While we may not be gathering in large groups this year, the holidays can still be a challenging time to navigate. Simply going to the grocery store, temptation is all around. With some pre-planning, you can make it through the holidays with little stress and feel good about your eating choices.

• Don’t go to a gathering (or the grocery store) hungry. Have a meal or a snack before you go.
• When going to visit family and friends for a gathering, bring along something you can eat. This could be a dish to share or simply a couple of baked potatoes.
• If you’re caught unprepared, remember, it’s ok to go hungry, you will eat again.
• If you do end up eating something that's off plan, don’t be too hard on yourself. Remember your next meal is a chance to get back on track.

That is some solid advice fresh from the McDougall Mailer.

In case anyone missed seeing it, I want to highlight this post from wildgoose discussing how to handle the Pleasure Trap. Her post was offered as a specific response, but the advice is broadly applicable, particularly

First, willpower is a finite resource. You will run out of it, if you depend solely on willpower to get you through. So structure your life so that doing well is easier and doing less well is harder. Clean up your environment so you don’t have to make choices between food that’s compliant and "edible food-like substances" that are not. Maybe (hard though it may be) experiment with giving up Starbucks for a month. Make your life as easy as possible, keep the stress low and try to minimize the number of decisions you have to make about food.

There are so many things outside our control that can make maintaining the recommended pattern of behavior more difficult; why not spend a little time this week considering something you can do right now to "structure your life so that doing well is easier and doing less well is harder?" You won't regret it.

Best to all and have an excellent week!

[Drew*]

Thanks for the info. I am wondering if it is OK to soak the dried fruit in water overnight in the fridge and then use the fruit. Perhaps still not recommended?

Drew*

@Drew* You’re right. Still not recommended. "Rehydrated" dried fruit is still much more calorie dense than fresh/frozen/canned fruit. It’s impossible to get the water in the fruit anywhere close to its original level. Think of it — can you rehydrate a raisin back into a grape?

Goose

Thank you Goose and Mark for your remarks. I once went to a vegetarian fair and heard a speaker talk about it so was just wondering. You are so right about a raisin vs. a grape!

Drew*

[Noella]

Noella When you feel you are "overeating," are you stuffing yourself? It is certainly possible that reduced balsamics and/or too much added salt could spur overeating, that was the case for me.

Thank you, Mark. This is the perfect question to ask because it is exactly the question I am struggling to figure out. I must be overeating because my weight isn't going down. I don't seem to get that over stuffed feeling even when I have eaten a lot. I have stopped using reduced balsamic vinegar because I could see I was using more and more of it each day. I think I need to put a halt to salt as it is problematic as well. I never actually feel that hungry, so that's another clue that I am overfed and continually overeating. I think I need to think through how much food is enough. I weigh almost eighty pounds less than I did ten months ago so clearly I need to eat less food than I used but I'm not eating less, I'm eating quite large amounts. So I need to figure out how to make some changes regarding the amount of food I eat. The MWL guidelines that are the most applicable are the one about eating the right amount and the one about using sugar/salt to add flavour. I'm using fruit like it is sugar. I suppose I'm discovering that the pleasure trap of sweet fruit and salty are a problem for me. I thought these weren't problematic but I have been going overboard with them for sure. I seem to be okay with not having added oils and fats; its mostly the fruit and salt that are causing trouble. How much fruit and salt is recommended for each day as a maximum? or should I take both of these out of my diet completely for a while to get back under control?
Noella

[wildgoose]

Noella When you feel you are "overeating," are you stuffing yourself? It is certainly possible that reduced balsamics and/or too much added salt could spur overeating, that was the case for me.

Thank you, Mark. This is the perfect question to ask because it is exactly the question I am struggling to figure out. I must be overeating because my weight isn't going down. I don't seem to get that over stuffed feeling even when I have eaten a lot. I have stopped using reduced balsamic vinegar because I could see I was using more and more of it each day. I think I need to put a halt to salt as it is problematic as well. I never actually feel that hungry, so that's another clue that I am overfed and continually overeating. I think I need to think through how much food is enough. I weigh almost eighty pounds less than I did ten months ago so clearly I need to eat less food than I used but I'm not eating less, I'm eating quite large amounts. So I need to figure out how to make some changes regarding the amount of food I eat. The MWL guidelines that are the most applicable are the one about eating the right amount and the one about using sugar/salt to add flavour. I'm using fruit like it is sugar. I suppose I'm discovering that the pleasure trap of sweet fruit and salty are a problem for me. I thought these weren't problematic but I have been going overboard with them for sure. I seem to be okay with not having added oils and fats; its mostly the fruit and salt that are causing trouble. How much fruit and salt is recommended for each day as a maximum? or should I take both of these out of my diet completely for a while to get back under control?
Noella

Noella, I’m sure Mark will have some words of wisdom for you, but I’d like to comment if I may....

You raise two interesting questions. First, salt definitely enhances the flavor of food and makes you want to eat more. It might be a useful experiment to stop (or reduce the amount) adding salt to the surface of food and see what happens. I used to liberally (and I do mean liberally) salt my food, and completely stopping that practice was a huge change for me, both in terms of what/how much I ate and in terms of how it drastically improved my blood pressure readings.

Second, the question of fruit as sugar. Dr. McDougall, in his January 2005 newsletter on Pushing Your Set Point to the Limits: The McDougall Program for Maximum Weight Loss, talks about his recommendations for fruit for just that reason.

Keep fruits to one or two a day. Fruit is largely simple sugar and people can easily eat 10 to 20 servings a day without a guilty thought – after all, fruit is healthy. In truth, fruits should be thought of as healthy desserts, made largely of sugar and water (but with lots of wholesome nutrients).

If you feel that fruit is a contributing factor in your overeating, again, you can try the experiment and limit your consumption. You may find that it’s only one or two fruits that are problematic (bananas are a problem for me, apples aren’t), or you may decide that more fruit is OK for you, or you may discover that yes, you need to limit fruit to 1-2, maybe 3 servings per day.

You have two things to experiment with. One or the other may be the cause for concern, or you may need to address both. In either case, you’ve given yourself a lot of options to work with as you fine-tune your eating.

Goose

[Drew*]

I do like the new template now that I have edited my initial posting. It will help with my movement forward from a difficult week that did not include anything but plant-based foods that were mostly low in fat, but included some exceptions including recurring popcorn. I plan to use the template from here on out so that there will be an improvement on how to get on track with MWL. Mark mentioned to me that "crowding out that popcorn and replacing it with plenty of starch, veggies and fruits" would be a great strategy in the coming week! That is my plan and my actions are what will count. Thanks,

Drew*

[Noella]

Noella, I’m sure Mark will have some words of wisdom for you, but I’d like to comment if I may....

You raise two interesting questions. First, salt definitely enhances the flavor of food and makes you want to eat more. It might be a useful experiment to stop (or reduce the amount) adding salt to the surface of food and see what happens. I used to liberally (and I do mean liberally) salt my food, and completely stopping that practice was a huge change for me, both in terms of what/how much I ate and in terms of how it drastically improved my blood pressure readings.

Second, the question of fruit as sugar. Dr. McDougall, in his January 2005 newsletter on Pushing Your Set Point to the Limits: The McDougall Program for Maximum Weight Loss, talks about his recommendations for fruit for just that reason.

Keep fruits to one or two a day. Fruit is largely simple sugar and people can easily eat 10 to 20 servings a day without a guilty thought – after all, fruit is healthy. In truth, fruits should be thought of as healthy desserts, made largely of sugar and water (but with lots of wholesome nutrients).

If you feel that fruit is a contributing factor in your overeating, again, you can try the experiment and limit your consumption. You may find that it’s only one or two fruits that are problematic (bananas are a problem for me, apples aren’t), or you may decide that more fruit is OK for you, or you may discover that yes, you need to limit fruit to 1-2, maybe 3 servings per day.

You have two things to experiment with. One or the other may be the cause for concern, or you may need to address both. In either case, you’ve given yourself a lot of options to work with as you fine-tune your eating.

Goose

Thank you, Wild Goose. My experiment with reducing fruit and salt starts now! Noella

[Mark Cooper]

Noella - My thoughts are in line with the post from wildgoose; adding salt (or sugar, for that matter) makes food more palatable. So, it's a question of whether a sprinkle of salt is helping one to enjoy and feel satisfied with the recommended foods vs. triggering overconsumption. If it is feeling like the latter for you, it makes sense to try eliminating (or significantly reducing) it and see how that works. And attending to Dr. McDougall's recommendation to limit fruit to two servings a day, on average, may be appropriate, as well. Like wildgoose, some fruits seem to cause me to overeat (bananas, mangos), many others don't. Something else I think can be helpful is, rather than framing the situation as you needing to "eat less," focus on adjusting the overall calorie density of your diet downward. You might be eating the same volume of food (or even more), but the total calories go down. The posts below give a sense of how to go about that:

Why We Hit Plateaus and What We Can Do About Them
Finding The Sweet Spot: Balancing Calorie Density, Nutrient Density & Satiety
Ideal Weight and Calorie Density

Drew* -

[Noella]

Noella - My thoughts are in line with the post from wildgoose; adding salt (or sugar, for that matter) makes food more palatable. So, it's a question of whether a sprinkle of salt is helping one to enjoy and feel satisfied with the recommended foods vs. triggering overconsumption. If it is feeling like the latter for you, it makes sense to try eliminating (or significantly reducing) it and see how that works. And attending to Dr. McDougall's recommendation to limit fruit to two servings a day, on average, may be appropriate, as well. Like wildgoose, some fruits seem to cause me to overeat (bananas, mangos), many others don't. Something else I think can be helpful is, rather than framing the situation as you needing to "eat less," focus on adjusting the overall calorie density of your diet downward. You might be eating the same volume of food (or even more), but the total calories go down. The posts below give a sense of how to go about that:

Why We Hit Plateaus and What We Can Do About Them
Finding The Sweet Spot: Balancing Calorie Density, Nutrient Density & Satiety
Ideal Weight and Calorie Density

Hi Mark,

Yes, a sprinkle of salt at the table and/or fruit is triggering overconsumption. The three posts from Jeff explain so much. Thank you! I now understand exactly what I need to tweak. As I get closer to a normal weight/BMI, my wiggle room is much narrower. So, I started to improve my adherence to MWL at dinner this evening by significantly reducing the salt I added at the table. Not surprising, I didn’t want to eat nearly as much as I did last night with the same exact dinner (tonight was leftovers). Yesterday, by adding a sprinkle of salt at the table I wanted to eat a much larger amount of food and I even had seconds, plus a couple more spoonfuls after dinner. So, it is clear to me that it is the salt that is making me eat beyond satiety; for sure this is what is happening. And the fruit...I do have trouble with overeating fruit; very much so. So I’m going to significantly limit my fruit now, too.

Thank you so much! I will study and follow the MWL guidelines more vigilantly than ever. Now that I am getting close to a normal BMI, I will be patient, and I will not give up. Significantly reducing the salt and fruit is bound to help!

Best regards,
Noella

[Janek155]

Starting! I’m sick of out of control eating, gaining weight, feeling tired and having my clothes not fit. Count me in for November. I’m scared I won’t succeed and at 53 yrs old, I feel like I’m running out of time. I need this to work.

[Mark Cooper]

Starting! I’m sick of out of control eating, gaining weight, feeling tired and having my clothes not fit. Count me in for November. I’m scared I won’t succeed and at 53 yrs old, I feel like I’m running out of time. I need this to work.

Hello! Now seems like an excellent time to take control of the behaviors that can best support your health and deliver sustainable weight loss. Be sure to review the Orientation Information for the group, and follow the instructions therein to register your participation.

[josietheschnauzer]

Dear Noella, thank you for posting the Nordic outdoor video from the BBC! Very inspiring plus lots of layers makes the cold bearable!!!!

[Marla]

Hi everyone,

I would like to be added to the group. I have completed orientation.

A brief intro: I successfully followed the regular McDougall plan for 11 years. Then I lost my way in the wake of some adverse life events, and gained 105 pounds. This year I got back on track and have lost 70 of those pounds; I have about 40 more to lose to reach what I think is my optimal weight. I've been reading the monthly thread for inspiration, and have decided to join this great group for support and accountability.

Hope everyone is having a great week!

[Mark Cooper]

Marla - Hello, welcome to the group, and congratulations on the significant progress you've made already! Have a great week!

[Expat in NZ]

Last weight - 180.2
Nov 13 - 181.2 (+1.0)

Happy NZ Friday!

So I suppose, all things considered, gaining one pound during all that travelling isn't bad at all haha! It was absolutely beautiful though and, much like the first time I stepped out onto the edge of the South Rim of the Grand Canyon...pictures do it no justice at all. NZ is breathtaking!

So I did the best I could do on all the points, but obviously it was very inconsistent. I am happy to be home and back onto it though!!

While travelling:
1. Start each meal with a soup and/or salad and/or fruit. I was able to get this about 50% of the time.
2. Follow the 50/50 plate method for your meals. Very inconsistent with this honestly but I actually think I ate more veggies than starches. Maybe it just felt like I did.
3. Greatly reduce or eliminate added sugars and added salts. Probably 50%
4. Eliminate all animal foods. As far as I was told, although I am sure I did consume some hidden milk or eggs at some stage.
5. Eliminate all higher fat plant foods. Yes
6. Eliminate any added oil. As much as I possibly could, I ate nothing fried.
7. Eliminate all higher calorie-dense foods. I ate whole grain bread fairly often unfortunately as there was no other option for a starch sometimes.
8. Don't drink your calories. I never do
9. Follow these principles, eating whenever you are hungry until you are comfortably full. I actually just realised this week (I don't know why it took me so long) that I don't really eat whenever I am hungry, I put it off a lot either because I am so busy or because there is nothing suitable to eat. Then I am ravenous. Then I snack and snack once I am home (usually on raw veg or fruit though) and then by the time it's mealtime I am not very hungry...but at 9pm guess what. I need to carry more snacks and make time to eat appropriately.
10. Avoid being sedentary. Always!.

[josietheschnauzer]

Travel is tres, tres difficult! Congratulations, I think you did well.