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 Post subject: Fierce speech by Philip Wollen
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 4:00 am 
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Of course we know that not eating animals is better for us, but let's not forget that there other equally compelling reasons to abstain. Nobody could say it any better http://freefromharm.org/videos/educatio ... ts-speech/

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My type 2 diabetic husband and I have lost a total of 65 pounds thanks to Dr. McDougall. I'm cooking for a household of 7 McDougallers, and enjoying good health and a renewed sense of well being.
- Lisa P.


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 Post subject: Re: Fierce speech by Philip Wollen
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 6:15 am 
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My reasons for not eating meat are not political or environmental, it's just a health issue. So I don't normally pay much attention to "activists."

However, that was a very compelling speech and has given me some food for thought.

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A man is rich in proportion to the number of things he can afford to let alone. ~Thoreau


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 Post subject: Re: Fierce speech by Philip Wollen
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 6:53 am 
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Thank you for posting this nordgirl! Brought tears to my eyes and gave me goosebumps! It would be very interesting to see the oppositions response. Just to see what argument they would raise that could possibly counter his stance.

This is a keeper for me I want to see it again!


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 Post subject: Re: Fierce speech by Philip Wollen
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 8:46 am 
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never give up wrote:
Thank you for posting this nordgirl! Brought tears to my eyes and gave me goosebumps! It would be very interesting to see the oppositions response. Just to see what argument they would raise that could possibly counter his stance.

This is a keeper for me I want to see it again!


Nice to hear that I wasn't the only one moved to tears :)

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My type 2 diabetic husband and I have lost a total of 65 pounds thanks to Dr. McDougall. I'm cooking for a household of 7 McDougallers, and enjoying good health and a renewed sense of well being.
- Lisa P.


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 Post subject: Re: Fierce speech by Philip Wollen
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 8:59 am 
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never give up wrote:
Thank you for posting this nordgirl! Brought tears to my eyes and gave me goosebumps! It would be very interesting to see the oppositions response. Just to see what argument they would raise that could possibly counter his stance.

This is a keeper for me I want to see it again!


You can view the entire debate on youtube.

Some points the opposition used to justify eating meat:
- if we didn't eat meat, farmed animals would go extinct.
- "I love meat"
- If we didn't have meat, Mongolians would starve...

Yes, they actually made those points. This clearly shows that there is no valid reason to continue to eat meat. The "vegan" side had such strong points that they simply couldn't be challenged.

The speech by Philip Wollen is perhaps one of the best I've heard.


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 Post subject: Re: Fierce speech by Philip Wollen
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:09 am 
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Bravo!


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 Post subject: Re: Fierce speech by Philip Wollen
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:43 am 
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Awesome! I shared it on facebook and tweeted it. Thanks for the post nordgirl :)

~ Erin


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 Post subject: Re: Fierce speech by Philip Wollen
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 10:03 am 
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Just found it HealthyMe2010. I look forward to watching it in its entirety.


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 Post subject: Re: Fierce speech by Philip Wollen
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 10:23 am 
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Sorry, I thought it was a poorly done disjointed speech without a clear main point and I was not moved to tears. He lost me right at the beginning when he compared the screams of his dying father with the screams of an animal being slaughtered. It is impossible to argue with someone who doesn't value his father more than a pig or see the difference between the drawn out suffering of a cancer victim and the rather very brief pain from the slaughter of an animal


I do not care to eat meat because of the filthy, disease producing conditions of factory farms and slaughter houses and see no need for torture but I have to place the worth of a human being above that of a cow. Perhaps there are some who would rather witness the death of a beloved child rather than test vaccines or antibiotics on animals. I am not one of them. There are some religions such as the Jains who sweep the ground in front of them so as not to step on any living thing and some religions which believe in reincarnation so that an animal is believed to hold the soul of someone who may have been or will be human. That is not my tradition. In the Jewish/Christian tradition, animals were at one time sacrificed and were and are certainly eaten.

To say that animal rights is the greatest social justice issue relegates to second place all the other abuses and examples of man's inhumanity to man such as the abuse of women or slavery which still exists in parts of the world or the child sex trade. I could go on.

Animals aren't people. They are animals. Anthropomorphizing them doesn't change that fact.

Didi


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 Post subject: Re : Fierce speech by Philip Wollen
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 10:39 am 
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You might feel differently if someday a form of life more advanced than humans fly in and decide to factory farm you, use your babies for scientific experimentation etc.
All forms of horrors on humans and other animals should be stopped. Of course I care more about the pain my father experiences then the pain a cow experiences. I am genetically programmed to care. And I loved him. And I also care about stopping human inflicted pain on other species.

Riva


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 Post subject: Re: Fierce speech by Philip Wollen
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 11:05 am 
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didi wrote:
Sorry, I thought it was a poorly done disjointed speech without a clear main point and I was not moved to tears. He lost me right at the beginning when he compared the screams of his dying father with the screams of an animal being slaughtered. It is impossible to argue with someone who doesn't value his father more than a pig or see the difference between the drawn out suffering of a cancer victim and the rather very brief pain from the slaughter of an animal


I do not care to eat meat because of the filthy, disease producing conditions of factory farms and slaughter houses and see no need for torture but I have to place the worth of a human being above that of a cow. Perhaps there are some who would rather witness the death of a beloved child rather than test vaccines or antibiotics on animals. I am not one of them. There are some religions such as the Jains who sweep the ground in front of them so as not to step on any living thing and some religions which believe in reincarnation so that an animal is believed to hold the soul of someone who may have been or will be human. That is not my tradition. In the Jewish/Christian tradition, animals were at one time sacrificed and were and are certainly eaten.

To say that animal rights is the greatest social justice issue relegates to second place all the other abuses and examples of man's inhumanity to man such as the abuse of women or slavery which still exists in parts of the world or the child sex trade. I could go on.

Animals aren't people. They are animals. Anthropomorphizing them doesn't change that fact.

Didi


Didi, you surprise me! Do you have any pets? Just wondering...

_________________
My type 2 diabetic husband and I have lost a total of 65 pounds thanks to Dr. McDougall. I'm cooking for a household of 7 McDougallers, and enjoying good health and a renewed sense of well being.
- Lisa P.


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 Post subject: Re: Fierce speech by Philip Wollen
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 11:46 am 
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didi wrote:
Animals aren't people. They are animals. Anthropomorphizing them doesn't change that fact.

Didi



Animals may not be people, but people are animals. Just saying.


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 Post subject: Re: Fierce speech by Philip Wollen
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 11:56 am 
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didi wrote:
Sorry, I thought it was a poorly done disjointed speech without a clear main point and I was not moved to tears. He lost me right at the beginning when he compared the screams of his dying father with the screams of an animal being slaughtered. It is impossible to argue with someone who doesn't value his father more than a pig or see the difference between the drawn out suffering of a cancer victim and the rather very brief pain from the slaughter of an animal


I do not care to eat meat because of the filthy, disease producing conditions of factory farms and slaughter houses and see no need for torture but I have to place the worth of a human being above that of a cow. Perhaps there are some who would rather witness the death of a beloved child rather than test vaccines or antibiotics on animals. I am not one of them. There are some religions such as the Jains who sweep the ground in front of them so as not to step on any living thing and some religions which believe in reincarnation so that an animal is believed to hold the soul of someone who may have been or will be human. That is not my tradition. In the Jewish/Christian tradition, animals were at one time sacrificed and were and are certainly eaten.

To say that animal rights is the greatest social justice issue relegates to second place all the other abuses and examples of man's inhumanity to man such as the abuse of women or slavery which still exists in parts of the world or the child sex trade. I could go on.

Animals aren't people. They are animals. Anthropomorphizing them doesn't change that fact.

Didi


You are missing the point COMPLETELY!

Animals may not be people, but at the hands of people they suffer. You cannot expect that we treat humans beings with compassion, if we cannot restrain ourselves from harming the weakest ones around us.

So long as we imprison animals, we will continue to imprison people. As long as we murder animals, we will continue to murder people. As long as we view animals as property, we will view people as property too.

The way to ultimate freedom and justice on this planet is to include ALL species the right to live free and without suffering.

As someone who had to witness both the months of suffering that a dying cancer victim goes through AND the wasting away of imprisoned animals, I can tell you that the comparison between the two is very accurate and valid. I would even say so much as to put the animals in the "more suffering" group, since a dying cancer victim often has the advantage of pain killers, while animals do not.

If you feel that testing dangerous vaccines or drugs would benefit someone else, then why not volunteer yourself and get paid for it? Animals have no choice in the matter and making them our slaves does not set a good moral standard for society. I'm sure you wouldn't want to be forcefully "volunteered" to get cancer, colitis, infections, viruses and other diseases for the sake of a stranger. Try viewing things from the perspective of the one who suffers without choice or say in the matter. I hope you can see things in a different light.


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 Post subject: Re: Fierce speech by Philip Wollen
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 12:00 pm 
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HealthyMe2010 wrote:
didi wrote:
Sorry, I thought it was a poorly done disjointed speech without a clear main point and I was not moved to tears. He lost me right at the beginning when he compared the screams of his dying father with the screams of an animal being slaughtered. It is impossible to argue with someone who doesn't value his father more than a pig or see the difference between the drawn out suffering of a cancer victim and the rather very brief pain from the slaughter of an animal


I do not care to eat meat because of the filthy, disease producing conditions of factory farms and slaughter houses and see no need for torture but I have to place the worth of a human being above that of a cow. Perhaps there are some who would rather witness the death of a beloved child rather than test vaccines or antibiotics on animals. I am not one of them. There are some religions such as the Jains who sweep the ground in front of them so as not to step on any living thing and some religions which believe in reincarnation so that an animal is believed to hold the soul of someone who may have been or will be human. That is not my tradition. In the Jewish/Christian tradition, animals were at one time sacrificed and were and are certainly eaten.

To say that animal rights is the greatest social justice issue relegates to second place all the other abuses and examples of man's inhumanity to man such as the abuse of women or slavery which still exists in parts of the world or the child sex trade. I could go on.

Animals aren't people. They are animals. Anthropomorphizing them doesn't change that fact.

Didi


You are missing the point COMPLETELY!

Animals may not be people, but at the hands of people they suffer. You cannot expect that we treat humans beings with compassion, if we cannot restrain ourselves from harming the weakest ones around us.

So long as we imprison animals, we will continue to imprison people. As long as we murder animals, we will continue to murder people. As long as we view animals as property, we will view people as property too.

The way to ultimate freedom and justice on this planet is to include ALL species the right to live free and without suffering.

As someone who had to witness both the months of suffering that a dying cancer victim goes through AND the wasting away of imprisoned animals, I can tell you that the comparison between the two is very accurate and valid. I would even say so much as to put the animals in the "more suffering" group, since a dying cancer victim often has the advantage of pain killers, while animals do not.

If you feel that testing dangerous vaccines or drugs would benefit someone else, then why not volunteer yourself and get paid for it? Animals have no choice in the matter and making them our slaves does not set a good moral standard for society. I'm sure you wouldn't want to be forcefully "volunteered" to get cancer, colitis, infections, viruses and other diseases for the sake of a stranger. Try viewing things from the perspective of the one who suffers without choice or say in the matter. I hope you can see things in a different light.


For you a like button :)

For Didi a viewing of earthlings
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ce4DJh-L ... ata_player

P.s. still love you Didi :) :) :)

_________________
My type 2 diabetic husband and I have lost a total of 65 pounds thanks to Dr. McDougall. I'm cooking for a household of 7 McDougallers, and enjoying good health and a renewed sense of well being.
- Lisa P.


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 Post subject: Re: Fierce speech by Philip Wollen
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 3:19 pm 
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Posts: 809
Location: San Diego
wow Didi--I agree with healthyme2010-Yes Didi- you are missing the point COMPLETELY!

healthyme2010 is right : "Animals may not be people, but at the hands of people they suffer. You cannot expect that we treat humans beings with compassion, if we cannot restrain ourselves from harming the weakest ones around us..."


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